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Audio Desk Record Cleaner-Anyone buy one yet

I may never get to own one of these due to the price, but if I could I would say that it may the best upgrade to any analog system. I had the opportunity recently to have a couple of records cleaned on one. The two Lp's I had cleaned are one of many copies I have purchased thru the years in search of a good clean copy. The title is the 2 disk set "Renaissance Live at Carnegie Hall". I took one of my copies over in hopes that I would get back that sought after clean copy. However I will preface my comments about the Audio Desk with the cold hard fact that once a record reaches a level of surface noise and contamination, nothing can make it new again. However once the Audio Desk completed it's 8 minute process, the improvements were immediately evident. First thing to take notice of, absolutely the cleanest and shiniest black vinyl I think I have ever seen. The LP's looked better than new under light. But the real test is listening. As I have listened to the title many many times from my first copy back in the 70's and never on LP, CD or Imported CD have I heard the detail of the recording. On disk #1 the cleanest of the two the LP was much cleaner than I have been able to obtain on my VPI 16.5 using Walker 4 Step, Mobile Fidelity Enzime, L'Art Du son, and various other solutions. My guess is the Audio Desk cleaned an additional 50-70% of the surface noise from the album. The depth of information in the Annie Haslam's Vocals, the clarity of the Bass that I had written off as muddled recording failure was now revealing the individual notes each taking their own space in the music field. The orchestra was fully present and not crowded together as before. Now on to disk 2, the disappointment of permanantly damaged grooves was inescapable. However the music that came thru had much more information to re-write the recall of this recording burned in my memory from previous listening sessions. On Scherazade with the verbal introduction to the song, I heard instruments and voices in nthe back ground that I had never noticed before. Little plucks of strings and puffs on brass as the orchestra was making sure they were ready to perform. I will say that an additional cleaning of 20-30 percent of this album was still obvious but to my disappointment, the Audio Desk is not a miracle worker, but a pretty damn good magician. I think 3800.00 is a lot of money for just about anything these days, but is it worth the 3800.00? Yes if you value and love your record collection. I have an LP12 with many upgrades and Lyra Kleos Cartridge. This record cleaner is just 800.00 more than the cartridge and when I put the two in perspective they both can bring a much higher level of performance to your turntable. Unfortunatly you need both and I sadley can only afford one. The financial curse of audiophilia continues....
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cto007's avatar
cto007
22 posts
 
Reiner Gläss of AudioDesk Systeme should be commended for his design of his Vinyl Cleaner in its unique ability to totally automate the record cleaning process - while still keeping the actual cleaning thorough and effective.

IMHO, the above scenario is usually mutually exclusive in that automation and convenience often sacrifice performance and high performance sacrifices convenience, etc. To me, this is his major achievement. I've had the pleasure to experience the product in person several times and have been tempted to (find a way) to acquire one - or at least similar results.

The critical accolades his AudioDesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner (ADSvc) is getting right now (despite it being available for several years) is genuinely deserved - and as the first mover with a viable commercial concept is open to set his own price/profit margins relative to his R&D, bravery, etc. This happens in every industry. This brings us to the next inevitability - iteration, imitation, evolution and eventually the next/next thing. This also happens in every industry.

So, on that note, there are several things in his design that I'm curious about - because, they seem to buck the general consensus of best practices established in ultrasonic cleaning in general. Most of the rule breaking can be observed here:

1 - The bath fluid should be degassed in the machine for 5-10 minutes prior to cleaning (the ADSvc doesn't have a degassing phase - such a phase simply requires running the machine with just your distilled water)

2 - The effectiveness of ultrasonic cleaning benefits from a heated bath (as far as I know, the AudioDesk product is not intentionally heated)

3 - The item to be cleaned should remain still in the bath (not only does his design have the LP constantly spinning at different speeds - there are roller brushes in full action for a majority of the bath cycle agitating the water)

4 - The amount of undisturbed time an item should remain in the bath should be relatively long (when compared to the exceptionally brief and "anything but still" minute that the ADSvc requires)

5 - No additional additive is required for effective bath water in the ultrasonic process (yet he has an additive - rumored to be some type of wetting agent/surfactant to aid in the drying process?)

6 - Finally, nothing is vacuumed. Simply dried with the ADSvc. This violates most known record cleaning concepts considered most effective up to now (Keith Monks, VPI, etc.).

So, despite all of these transgressions from known "rules' for effective ultrasonic cleaning (or vinyl LP cleaning in general) -- this product is highly effective.

So, what say you readers? I'm interested in the discussion.

Cheers
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
interesting points, i don't know the science about ultrasonic cleaning so i can't comment on the still water and the heated water points, but i can tell you that records much prefer blow drying to vaccuum. vaccuum adds static, blow drying does not nearly to the same degree. big issue as far as dirt and dust attraction and calmness of that first play.

i own the Loricraft, and did own the VPI 16.5 for many years, so i know how vacuuming affects play. one benefit of the Loricraft over the VPI is it's less intense vacuuming. and the AD has none so it's even better.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
Cto007, as I said in my review the Vinyl Cleaner improves on the cleaning of the VPI with a Delrin tube instead of the normal plastic tube and visa versa. I suspect that it is differences in methods and fluids but nevertheless, using both is a better although untenable solution to cleaning records.

Mike, I have never had a static problem with any of the multiple cleaning machines I've owned. Perhaps this is the humidity of Texas.
ecir38
155 posts
 
Cto007, ultrasonics creates its own heat. Additional heat would probably ruin vinyl. One of the benifits of ADS systenm is it goes through a cycle of different frequencies which create large and small bubbles to get to all the areas of the vinyl.
cto007's avatar
cto007
22 posts
 
Yes - the friction created between the tube strips and LP... especially if one lets the cycle run too long as the record becomes dry = lots of static buildup.

For the record, my points above regarding "proper ultrasonic cleaning" were gathered up from around the net researching the subject after becoming intrigued by the AudioDesk machine. Most hobbyist ultrasonic cleaning is discussed among car enthusiasts restoring old carburetors or watch collectors. It's possible that such objects are more difficult to clean given their complex structures (and in the case of engine parts - extreme grime and mess.) Thus, more care is needed to get good results. A vinyl LP - although decidedly more delicate - is a more simple structure to clean relatively speaking.

There is also a rather healthy interest among DIYers experimenting with far less elegant and mostly manual versions of ultrasonic LP cleaning routines. In all these instances, getting proper cavitation to occur in the bath has required all sorts of experimentation -- all of which, I presume, Reiner has figure out on his own to get the brilliant results his design is getting (with little fuss or muss).

All of this is fascinating - given how old this hobby is we are still finding ways to better extract more sound from those tiny grooves. What next?
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