Turn table speed variation question


I've always found that tracks containing sustained piano notes (chords mainly) seem to highlight the smallest variation in platter speed.

However, I do not notice the same speed variations with sustained notes played on any other instruments.

Works well when auditioning turntables, but a PITA when you hit those older, less than stellar recordings, where the tape machine cause the issue.

Wondered if anyone else had the same experience with a different instrument, or is this specific to the piano.

Thanks
williewonka
Lew, "original" or "period" instruments refers to the
instruments that were in use when the particular music was composed and
applies primarily to the music of the Rennaisance and Baroque and, as you
say, the early to mid-Classical period. These may be early, less evolved
versions of instruments that we know today or intruments no longer in use
other than in early-music ensembles and no longer manufactured. By the
late 19th century most orchestral instruments had evolved in design to
essentially what they are today; relatively subtle design improvements
continue until the present. String instruments have evolved with increased
power and volume as a primary goal, brass and ESPECIALLY woodwinds
have evolve with ergonomic improvements as a primary goal in order to
facilitate the higher technical demands of more modern music composition
styles. Early woodwinds were very crude in comparison to modern
versions which have evolved to have much more ergonomic and advanced
key mechanisms and improved tuning. For instance, the chalumeau, the
predecessor of the clarinet used only two or three keys as opposed to the
modern Boehm system clarinet. Clarinet parts found in the modern
orchestral repertoire would be impossible to execute on a chalumeau.

Re vibrato: the instrument does not determine wether vibrato is used or not;
it is a technique that a player chooses to use (or not) depending on wether
the player feels it is musically appropriate or not. You are correct, the
trumpets used by Dizzy and Marsalis, while by different maufacturers, are
not fundamentally different, the instrument has not seen fundamental
design changes for quite some time, although Marsalis' "Monet"
trumpet, a very expensive ultra-high end custom instrument, in theory, has
some subtle design improvements incorporated. In theory, because these
"improvements" are not universally appreciated by musicians.

An interesting parallel between this subject and the audiophile world is that
with the advent of computer programs and analysis used in the design of
modern instruments, in order to "improve" aspects of an
instrument's character, some designers now use less of the old school
method of "if it sounds good, then it must be good" approach
and rely more on technical theory. The end result has been some real
improvements particularly in the area of tuning; but, because
"theory" often conflicts with nature's laws of acoustics and
resonance, attempts to "fool Mother Nature" in the design
process often results in compromises in those hard-to-define aspects of an
instrument's sound and personality. Many modern players prefer
instruments designed before the advent of computer modeling.
Actually, increase in tuning pitch dates back to the 17th Century. Medieval and Baroque music was generally tuned to A4 being around 400Hz. It's now standard at 440Hz.

There is a scientific tuning where middle C is 256Hz. This puts A at 430.54Hz. With this tuning octaves of C remain whole numbers all the way up and down. I don't think this has much to do with nature as musical notation, unless you're in the key of C ?
Regards,

**Indeed you can buy an outer ring to improve the moment of inertia, trackability and effective platter mass.**

MOI ? This usually refers to arm/cart.
Please explain.
Regards,
Lew,
There is no excessive pitch wobble or instability on the original pressing of Kind of Blue. It's about a 1/4 tone flat - consistently. Wobble and inconsistency implies wow and flutter type speed variations.
Even people with perfect pitch don't have a problem with this because the relative pitch remains consistent.
Regards,
Fleib, I think that you are confusing a couple of issues. First of all, while it
is true that orchestras did, in fact, tune to a lower pitch standard in earlier
(than modern) periods, that fact has little to do with the issue of the tuning
of original (period) instruments vs modern versions as it applies to this
discussion. My comments about the design changes in instrument
manufacture that improved the tuning of instruments referred to the
capability of a modern instrument to play in tune relative to itself. IOW,
early instruments (especially woodwinds and brass) had a lot of problems
with intervallic accuracy; for instance, an early clarinet or oboe may be
capable of producing a perfectly in tune "C", but because of
design imperfections the "C" an octave higher might be terribly
sharp. That is but one example of many tuning issues that a performer on
an early instrument might face. The reasons for these issues are not
simply lack of skill on the part of the designer, but also the fact that there
are certain tendencies that are governed by the laws of acoustics, which as
I am sure you know have a great deal to do with mathematics and the
imperfections in the harmonic series. Modern instrument designers have
the help of computer analysis to manipulate (to a degree) these naturally
occurring acoustic phenomena, but, often there is a downside to the
musician which relates to the issue that you bring up:

It is true that A=440 has been the defacto pitch standard for modern
orchestras, although that is changing very rapidly. First of all, European
orchestras have traditionally tuned to a higher pitch than American
orchestras. However, the trend is for American orchestras to tune to a
higher pitch as well. The NY Philharmonic tunes to A=443, Boston to
A=444; the list goes on. The reasons for this trend is primarily that tuning
to a higher pitch reference results in a more brilliant sound which is
considered more attractive or exciting the listener. Additionally, the
prevalence of visiting guest conductors who are used to the higher pitch
has a bearing, as does the possible presence in a concert hall of a pipe
organ tuned to a particular pitch. The lower pitch yields a sound that is
more opulent and rich and allows an orchestral instrument to play better in
tune relative to itself; as designed. While it is possible to tune an
instrument to a higher (or lower) pitch standard it has to be done by altering
(in the case of a woodwind or brass) the length of its tubing by either
shortening or lengthening it. All modern instruments have the
means to do this "on the fly", but the further one takes that
instrument from the ideal length of tubing (that pesky mathematics issue
again) the more that the pitch relationships between notes on that
instrument will be distorted placing more demands on the player to
compensate (via playing technique) for these pitch-relationship distortions.

Re "perfect pitch" and KOB:

****Even people with perfect pitch don't have a problem with this because
the relative pitch remains consistent. ****

That is PRECISELY why people with perfect pitch have a problem with this.
Perfect pitch is not a particularly keen sensitivity to pitch inconsistency, but
the ability to hear when a CONSISTENT pitch is too low or too high relative
to accepted standards (A=440 +/-). When a listener with perfect pitch
hears, for example, a "Bb" played or played back a quarter tone
flat that listener's brain can't process wether the key is then a flat
"Bb" or a sharp "A".

BTW, there is a lot of confusion and lore out there about the pitch issue on
KOB. The facts are these: Side one only of the original pressing of KOB
was recorded on a tape machine that was running slightly slow. Yes, it was
recorded slow, but when those pressings are played back on a turntable
running at the correct speed the end result is music that is sharp in pitch
(too fast); not flat as is often claimed.

Merry Christmas!

BTW, in case anyone read this before the correction, sorry for the
temporary misspelling of your moniker, Fleib; spellchecker strikes again :-)