Phono rig capacitance


I have read up on LPFs (low pass filters) and corner frequencies. and found the following... this equation gives the -3db corner frequency: Fc = 1/(2*Pi*R*C), inductance is ignored but can be impleneted using the R-adjusted instead of R as SQRT(R*L), geometric average. Though the value may not be significant, which is why I usually see it omitted.

I am interested in:

1. how one computes the -0.5, or -1db or any db cut in frequency NOT just the 3db corner frequency.

2. How to compute the corner frequency for the cartridge to SUT, given the amount of capacitance in the interconnect. For the example I suppose using the all familiar cinemag 3440 makes sense and for the cart the denon 103.

3.Same as above, but to compute for the interconnect from the SUT to the preamp..

4. Same as above but compute for the interconnect from the preamp to the power amp.

5. And perhaps the same for loudspeakers as well.

The goal is to find a value that ensures there is no roll off taking place and to select a suitable wire for each interconnection in a phono based playback system using an MC cartridge->SUT->Pre->Power.

I know, less capactiance blah blah blah, buy a 4 thousand dollar cable blah blah blah is the usual answer, but I am looking for a more scientific and technical approach to selecting wires that are in the ballpark of what makes sense based on well understood engineering principles.

I know that there are several members with advanced degrees in electrical engineering or are technically apt (Almrag, Atma, Raph etc...) and I am hoping that one of you can find the time to chime in please.

Thanks guys, looking forward to hearing your take!
dfel
Jcarr, thank you very much for posting I appreciate it. I will read through the forum, gather my thoughts, and post in this thread again. I am also wondering, what do you find is the typical inductance of a moving coil cartridge (low output and also high output) ? I get that several generators can be used but I am just curious what your take is on this. Are we in the realm of 5-500uH or are we more in the area of 5-500mH?

I can see what you are saying. I will put it into practical terms for anyone else who is reading so they can follow as well ( all 2 of them). Suppose that you have 100pf cable from the cart -> Sut and another identical one from the SUT->Preamp. and you are using a 1:10 SUT. Then...

The cart sees:

-100Pf + 100pf *sqrt(10)= 416pf
-The 47K load gets reflected back at 470 Ohms
-and the inductance of the wire is meaningless even after -being reflected with a Sqrt(10) multiple tied to it. The -cartdrige inductance is x * sqrt(10) and can be substantial depending.

The SUT sees ( bad phrasing, Through the SUT...):
-100pf *10 +100 pf = 1,100pf
-inductance from the cart x*10 = 10X
-and 40 Ohms from the cart *10 + 47K = 47400, or just 47K
Al, thanks for pointing out those details. You are right. I had not looked at the too little side. On the correlation I would hope so, it would make things easier but there in solid convention for quotation that would make it easy to figure out, but I will have to think about this. I do see what you mean, X MV output and Y resistance into an open circuit figure out ballpark for inductance etc.

As for the Ultrasonic Subsonic...tomato tom-ah-to LOL, you are correct I goofed on that.
Jcarr, Please email the white paper, you reference in the thread I am exceedingly interested in reading it!!!! Thanks. I will PM you.
Wait a Minute I had a dull moment let us redo this:

Too bad there are no edits, now the mistakes look silly forever.

Assumptions/Signal Chain

Cart[x uh,30Ohms , wire(100pf,2uh,1 Ohm)->SUT->(Same wire)->Preamp(47K)

Cart sees everything on its side and the other side of the SUT DIVIDED by 10^2 or 100:

-100Pf (from the Cart->SUT connection) + 100pr/(10^2) (From the SUT->Preamp) back through the SUT = 101pf

-The 47K load gets reflected back at 47K/(10^2) = 470 Ohms

-and the inductance of the wire is meaningless and even less so after it is divided by 10^2.

-The cartdrige inductance is x and can be substantial depending as explained earlier

Other side ofSUT sees everything stepped up by 10^2:

-100pf *10^2 +100 pf = 10,100pf (WOWZER)
-inductance from the cart x uh*10^2 = 100X uh
-and 40 Ohms from the cart *10^2 = 4K

driven into a pre with a input imp of 47K.

This should be correct, sorry for the mixup, and please let me know if I made a mistake here (again).

Note: I have ignored reactance (Capacitive and Inductive) though I do not think it is substantial and I am also not certain how that follows through the ends of a SUT, If I were to guess Z is altered as sqrt((Xc/10^2)^2 + (XL/10^2)^2) using a linear transform of variable...ditto for the other direction.