Have I Hit The Point Of Diminishing Returns?

08-06-14: Truemaineiac
Have you ever spent time with a good tube and analog system?

I assume you are talking to me? If so, yes, my whole system is tube based, phono stage, preamp and amp, and vinyl is my primary source.

My point is simply this: I have owned $125K system previously, but due to economics, I have cut back and I am currently running about a $30K system. Was the previous $125K system better? Yes. However, if one were to try and quantify the difference, which I agree Joecasey is ludicrous and ridiculous, there is no way the $125K system was even twice as good. I would say maybe 10-20% better....for 4X the cost. That, in my humble opinion, reflects the point of diminishing returns.

I have also heard quite a few less expensive systems, and the only way something sounds twice as good, regardless of price, is if one of the systems is defective. Now I know that many folks will quantify improvements they have made in their systems over the years, this was a 5% improvement, that was a 10% improvement, heck, I even used to do that myself. However, after disassembling my $125K rig and going back downstream did I realize that those dozens and dozens of 5-20% improvements I heard over the years were mostly imaginary. Since I could scale back to less than 25% of the cost and only lose a small percentage of performance. I was quite stunned actually, to find out just how good a much less expensive system could sound.

Jmcgrogan2, no I was referring my question to the OP. I should elaborate that in my experience, going to tubes and vinyl was a game changer in bringing up many levels of enjoyment. There are too many threads regarding the virtues and trade-offs of this approach to elaborate here, but it would be worth at least casual investigation if someone's exposure was limited.

I think that a really highly capable system can be had for the $30K level you mention if you can find the right used components.

I personally do not nor have nor ever had the ability in assigning a numeric value to an increase in performance. It either is one of two things

1) a lateral move, maybe different but not and improvement but may initially be perceived as an improvement because it's different.
2) an improvement that can vary from small but noticable to substantial but is quite apparent.

I have had conversations with a manufacturer that places a numeric value on the % of improvement he has made on his products. He actually told me that I could expect a 135% improvement over what I had to what the current model was. I think he just added up these improvements over the years and came up with that number but it meant absolutely nothing to me other than I could expect a BIG improvement.

The law of diminishing returns to me is when you aren't gaining more enjoyment listening to music through upgrades even though they may be improvements. I don't believe there is any way to quantify it or measure it. At some point, different for some than others, it simply comes down to whether or not it is worth spending the money for the gain. When the point is reached where spending more isn't worth it, if ever (we are audiophiles after all), the law of diminishing returns has arrived.

As far as your system goes RlB61 only you can answer that question. If you are throughly enjoying the music your system makes it might be better to leave it alone until that stops happening. If you are not satisfied about something and are distracted because something doesn't sound right you have NOT hit the point of diminishing returns.

The law of diminishing returns to me is when you aren't gaining more enjoyment listening to music through upgrades even though they may be improvements. I don't believe there is any way to quantify it or measure it. At some point, different for some than others, it simply comes down to whether or not it is worth spending the money for the gain. When the point is reached where spending more isn't worth it, if ever (we are audiophiles after all), the law of diminishing returns has arrived.

As far as your system goes RlB61 only you can answer that question. If you are throughly enjoying the music your system makes it might be better to leave it alone until that stops happening. If you are not satisfied about something and are distracted because something doesn't sound right you have NOT hit the point of diminishing returns.

Thanks Tubegroover, this is what I was TRYING to articulate but failed miserably. :-)

I realize my rig is a bit dated, but it sounds great.

It sounds great until you hear something better. Try a new dac. The Chord Hugo opened up my eyes/ears.