CAT Preamps vs Amps

The SL1 Sig MK3 has been the centerpiece of my system for several years, with consistent, solid performance that never dissapoints. Musical yet detailed and it does all the audiophile things with apparent ease. I have worried about what I would do if something ever happened to it since I know it would be extreamly difficult to replace with something sounding as good, let alone better. BTW, the phono section is excellent IMO and I use it for 90%+ of my listening.

I haven't tried a large variety of tubes but I feel it hates the sovetek stuff but sounds great with EI 12AX7 elite golds, and in the 6922 position either the 6h23, JJ E88cc, or EI 6922. I've found it to be easy on tubes and easy to feed when it does need a pick me up.

John

I guess my comments will be somewhat redundant. I have owned the CAT Ultimate MK2 (linestage only) for about a year. I found the CAT with stock sovtek tubes to be awful.
Agressive, edgy and downright uncomfortable to listen to.
Replacing them with Amperex PQ 6922's and 12AX7's was transformational. The PQ's made in Holland are a little more forward than the USA made PQ's but both are MUSICAL.

I read this post for no other reason than I was "passing through." I have to admit, I was -- and am -- agog at reading that the CAT preamps lack micro- and macro- dynamics. Of course, I owned mine back from 1995-1993, and perhaps they have changed since then, but my system(s) were composed of Versa Dynamics 2.0 and 2.3 turntables , Goldmund Mimesis 9 and Jadis Defy 7 MIT, XLO and Transparent Reference interconnect and speaker cables, and Avalons/Watt/Puppies/Goldmund Super Dialogues and I cannot fathom that the CAT did not have micro-dynamics. Macro, perhaps, and only JUST perhaps. In fact, if you read issue 38 of TAS, you will see that that trait was mentioned as one of its strenghts. Ditto TAS #60, Sounds Like..#3 and a couple of other mags. I could never say that the older CATs lacked micro-dynamics, particulary with the Jadis Defy 7, which was inarguably exquisite in micro-level inflections (macro was very different on that amp, no matter WHAT I used). What I can say is that everything since, including my VAC 70/70s, sound slightly slow by comparison. Are you using vinyl or cds? I have trouble getting my cds to "inflect" anywhere near as good as my Versa did (but then, it cost $15,000, so it had darn well better sound better than most CD players of that time), but I'm genuinely interested to know what the front ends being used are.
I own a First Sound now, but unless the CAT has lost its touch completely, I can't fathom problems with its dynamic abilities. Only my First Sound preamp (my current preamp) has made me wonder if the woofers on my speakers were going to blow out in the way the CAT used to. And that's macro. For micro, the CAT is an exquisite preamp, and having been an edtior for Fi, I heard a heck of a lot of preamps and amps and speakers in my time there. And frankly, I miss the sweetness of the CAT, and I hear orchestral music at least once a month, and live music, depending on the composer, does sound sweet. The CAT, with its inflections, was dazzling. Has it changed that much since the late 80s??????

I spoke with Ken Stevens for about an hour and a half today.
We spoke about many amps and preamps but mostly his in relation to others. He told me that his preamp is amoung the best and the best at it's price point but there were preamps that were as good or better that cost more. He threw out a few familiar names, Aesthetix, Acoustic Research REF3, and a few others that elude me at the moment. He said that without reservation his amps JL2 and JL3 were head and shoulders above anything else. He said that he is marketing his Legend preamp to reclaim the best preamp cost no object product.

I, like Gbmcleod, am agog by what people have written about CAT preamps. I find them to be certainly among the best in dynamics, smoothness, liquidity and high frequency detail. They have stunning bass, in both depth and power. In my opinion, the bass is like nothing that I have heard from other preamps and once you have heard it, it is hard to give up.

Where I think that they fall down is in the area of low level noise, which obscures transparency and imaging to a slight degree.

This is why I spend more time listening to my First Sound Mk II 4.0 rather than my CAT Ultimate Mk I, but both are very fine products which, in my opinion, exceed the efforts of the other top brands which I have heard. Admittedly, my evaluations are prejudiced in that many of the brands which I have heard were not tube-rolled and, in my opinion, this can make all the difference between a presentation that is just so-so and one that is outstanding, but only if the preamp "has the goods".

What I have found is that it is difficult, if not impossible, to compare preamps with stock tubes. Despite what the manufacturers say, stock units do not come close to revealing what these units can do when tube-rolled.

If you are evaluating a CAT Mk III or later with stock Sovtek 6922's in V6 and V7 on line, or in phono add V1 and V2 to V6 and V7, you are really doing yourself a disservice. These MUST be replaced. I have tried a number of NOS tubes, but obviously not all, and I do prefer the Telefunken 6922 in the CAT Ultimate Mk I, like Bombaywalla said above. The EI 12AX7's are surprisingly decent sounding tubes in the CAT, but if replaced at V8 and V9 on line and if you use phono, replace the ones at V3 and V4 also, you can eliminate some muddiness in the bass that you didn't know was there until it is gone. Telefunken 12AX7's work well for this purpose.

Nothing that I have heard goes down deeper, giving both bass depth and power, a better lower midrange transition, with smoothness, solidity, liquidity and with dynamics to spare. Highs are sweet and detailed and extended. High frequency decay on the CAT when a cymbal is struck hard is exceptional and with these tubes, there is no brightness or forwardness anywhere.

Yes, the First Sound will stun you with its much lower noise floor. Yes, it will stun you with its "you are there" transparency. The small and well-defined images in the soundstage cannot be achieved on the CAT and the female vocals on the First Sound are truly exceptional in their up-front intimate presentation, but all this again, is only achievable after tube rolling.

Nothing is better than hearing the CAT properly fed go full out on music written for pipe organ. If the rest of your system is full-range, or nearly so, you will rattle the windows like few other preamps are able to do and yet you will hear all the subtlety and delicacy of the small trupets and whistles that pipe organs can also play, presented without any non-musical artifact When all the pipes get going in unison, you might feel that you are in church or that you are taking a tour of the great churches of Europe.

So my answer is an unequivocal no as to whether the CAT is just "very good" or lacks dynamics -micro or macro. Yes, it has been surpassed in some respects, but in overall presentation, it is worthy of very high praise indeed.