DarTZeel Preamp

Mike- Have you been using the preamp in battery mode? I know last time you had it, you may not have have even realized its true sonic potential. Any better this time now that it is back in your system?

OB, i was not referring to the ML2.1's with my reference to typical SET warmth or limitations. i should have expected that you might take my comments to refer to your amps; sorry; that was NOT my intention at all. i would guess we both agree that in those areas the ML2.1's are very much not typical. warmth and limitations in dynamics and frequency extention are typical of most SET's in my experience.

BTW, i would expect that my reaction to the ML2.1's in your system would be similar to other visitors; i would expect it to sound great.

reading your comments regarding my 'flowery prose'.....when you say "anyone who has the same emotional involvement with the amp in their system" i assume you mean that any person with ANY amp (not specifically the darTZeel) might have the same perceptions. to a degree i can see your point. where i would disagree would be the affect with the darTZeel 'system' to somehow strip away a layer or two of distortion. like you i have listened to lots of gear......nothing has even approached what i percieve to be happening with the dart pre in my system.......and that is just using AC power. when i get a full production unit that uses battery it will go even further down this road.

i've certainly never assigned these attributes to any other amp or preamp; and i've heard quite a few pretty good ones.

i could be totally delusional and under the influence of the 'entity'......or my interpretation of the darTZeel's performance could be correct.

Fsarc; i am not currently using battery mode. i did previously twice briefly (15 minutes total) hear this pre in battery mode and it was spooky good. this pre-production model is not fully sorted out so i am avoiding the battery mode.

what i heard during those brief glimses into the battery mode was a focus and naturalness that was unique. my perceptions on this are provisional; it takes time to get a handle on what is actually happening. the one thing that i heard that got me very excited was the additional micro dynamics and 'jump' factor in battery mode......very explosive and real sounding.

i can't wait for an extended session of battery mode listening.

OB- The owner's manual is referring to the fact that the amp is ALWAYS drawing a small amount of electricity and maintaining a "charge". After depressing the "POWER NOSE", which takes it out of standby (this is NOT a power switch that disconnects it from the mains), the amp will reach 95% of its potential after five minutes of actual playing time. The amp could be left on all the time and require no five minute warm up, but that would be a waste of electricity.

I read it as Mike referring to the improvement over other amps he has heard in his system (or other systems) and hence the differences the Dart combo brings. Certainly you wouldn't say you have the "same emotional involvement" in your system as when you had the Ref 2 and 600s versus the Ref 3 and 2.1 would you? Or the X-1 versus the X-2s?

Also- what if Jeff Fritz had written a review of the Wilson X-2s or EMM DAC 6/CDSD and it was basically the same "tone" as the Dart review- honest, good reporting of what he heard, but felt these components were not competitive at their given price range. Fair enough?

But how would you feel about those same reviews if you found out Jeff never adjusted the X2 upper modules for his listening position or ran an RCA digital cable between the Meitner pieces and never used the fiber optic connections? Still an honest review, but not totally accurate and representative of the products full potential. *IF* Jeff never removed the DC compensation on the Dart or allowed proper break-in, then he never heard the amp at its full potential and made his comparisons against other amps slightly compromised.

From the Dart manual:

"The third jumper, labeled DC Offset COMP, is the most important since it does affect the sound of the amplifier"

"In doing so, you will fully benefit from the very philisophy of the NHB-108 model one, which is to refuse any compensation or global negative feedback which could impair the sound."

Oneobgyn: You might be confusing an amp that is broken in and had been turned on and after 5 minutes is at 90% vs. an amplifier which has not been broken in at all. Again, this is very definitive and everyone has reported the same experience. If you had ordered one from me, I would have told you about the break-in, just like I did for eveyone else. At that point, I am sure you would completely understand and agree.

BTW... Since I am the one that was very hesitant to recommend you try the LAMM ML2.1's with the Wilson Alexandria, I am glad I was wrong and you are so pleased!