CJ vs. BAT vs. THOR preamps, who's best?


Hi.
Looking for some input as to which of the above's top of the line, past & present preamps provide the best overall flexibility, and sonically involving presentation? ...and have the best support. Likely one of these will be paired with at least a solid state amp... possibly a tube as well if I bi-amp. Currently using VR4 JR's and if these change it will be to a little more efficient set of loudspeakers, but likely as close to full range as is possible.

I lean towards the euphonic - romantic side of things sonically speaking. And, 'gasp!' a bit towards the darker side of neutral... with needs being, very good to great bottom end and natural earthy sounding mids - no extension in the high end arena really necessary, just sweet and balanced on the whole.

I've got the VK5i, heard the TA1000 mkII, and know little about the CJ end of things other than that they invert the signal during it's development and only the BAT can afford one the use of a balanced setup... gotta go single ended with the others.

...again, support & flexibility with different amps are almost as if not as important as the sonic signature, to me.

Thanks in advance...
blindjim
I have owned the Thor, CJ LS16 MKII and others. Love the Thor, but the CJ was just pure magic. So organic and musical.

The CJ would be my choice. I had both in my system at the same time and the CJ had more body and texture with all of the detail of the Thor. The Thor had more "jump" or better pace. Both great to be sure. I just think CJ makes the finest pre's going from the 16 on up!

Bill
I haven't heard the Thor, but I owned the CJ Premier LS16 mk II and the BAT VK-51SE. I choose the BAT. The CJ was a little sweeter in the mid's, but the BAT was much better dynamically (including the bass). Both were very good preamps, and it will depend on what you want most. I loved the vocals on the CJ, but music sounded much more lively through the BAT. Ultimately I kept the BAT. YMMV.

Cheers,
John
Thanks, Bill, and John.

wow! given what I've found out first hand in the BAT gears reproduction of music I'm a bit flabergasted to hear that another and yet, sweeter mid can be produced, apart from BAT.

I enjoy all sorts of music. All sorts. Except 'Hip Hop' & 'Rap'. ain't real big on monks doing mantras either... but mostly I live in the Blues, Jazz, Vocals area of music... though if it be a good recording, I do enjoy it immensely. Whatever the genre... even opera & classical. That's a big strectch for me as I've been known to say in the past, when asked aobut what music I have on hand, "I have both kinds, Country... and Western'. Long time since those days, though.

Mating to the solid state amp well seems the issue as personally I think any ov the three pres would float my boat, so to speak. My local CJ dealer is mostly a tube type. All the way. It's doubtful he'll ever have the P350 on hand at the same time as say a LS17, or CT6, so finding out about that part continues to elude me...

So about the service end of things and matching to solid state amps with any of these pres seems the question that is foremost my concern.... Anyone know which of these pres should not be mated to a SS amp? (likely either the BAT vk600 or CJ Premeir 350), and for a time right off, the BAT vk500 I have now)....???
I think synergy has a lot to do with the sound, and if you do decide on a CJ preamp I'd highly recommend mating it with the 350. I know a bigtime CJ fan, who moved up from a Premier 16LS mk II/Premier 8 monoblock setup to an ACT2/350 and couldn't be happier. He claims the 350 is the best sounding CJ amp he's ever heard. He's a 20 year fan of CJ, and knows Bill and Lew personally.

That said, I was running a pair of Clayton Audio M100 monoblock amps at the time of the CJ/BAT preamp testing that I mentioned above. The M100's have a rather low input impedence, which would favor the BAT, since it has a lower output impedence. Perhaps if I'd heard both preamps with the CJ 350 I would have choosen to keep the CJ instead of the BAT, who knows? Yes, the CJ does have a sweeter vocal range than the BAT, but in my system, the BAT did so much other stuff better (dynamics, power, soundstage, etc) that in the end I choose it. Since then I've mated it with a BAT VK-600SE and haven't looked back. I running fully balanced with a BAT VK-P10SE w/ Super-Pak phono stage and a VK-D5SE w/Super-Pak and I'm very happy. :-)

The CJ was very good, and came in second in my preamp search last year. I went through preamps from Mark Levinson, Krell, Threshold, VAC, CJ and BAT, all in my system. The BAT VK-51SE was my personal favorite by far. The CJ was a distant second. However, like I said, if I had it mated with a CJ amp, perhaps the results would have been different.

I listen to mostly jazz, blues and folk, and I do admit that on most vocal material the CJ was the best preamp. However, there's more to music than the vocals, for me anyway. The CJ just could not boogie like the BAT. As always, YMMV.

The BAT preamp run balanced would sound best with your current BAT amp. It's a shame your dealer won't carry a 350, since I've talked to many who swear it's the sweetest sounding SS they've ever heard.

You have a tough, but fun decision to make as to which direction you want to go musically. The 'house sound' of CJ is very sweet, inviting and extremely musical. The BAT 'house sound' is BIG, dynamic and powerful. Not that the CJ doesn't do dynamics, or the BAT is not musical, because they do. I would think that the rest of your system would decide which is a better fit.

Since you only do digital, and are using the VR-4 JR's, I think you may prefer the CJ. My friend had a pair of VR-4JR's (he's since moved on to Revel speakers), but from what I remember of his VR-4JR's they were very quick and dynamic, but a bit lean. So the added warmth of the CJ may work better in your system than in mine. My speakers (Verity Audio Parsifal Encore's) are very warm and sweet, and enjoy the added punch and life of the BAT equipment.

It seems like we have similar musical tastes, but different systems. There is more than one way to reach musical nirvana. You've choosen three very interesting paths. Only one that you know. Just one word of precaution, sometimes the best is already in front of you and you don't know it.

By that I mean that before starting my 7 preamp world tour last year, my preamp was a BAT VK-31SE. I was sure it was my preamp that needed to be upgraded. Over the next 6 months I bought and sold 6 preamps (I kept one). Many were big dissapointments. It was after the first two preamps came and went, rather quickly I might add, that I realized I'd made a mistake selling the BAT VK-31SE. My final choice really did come down to the CJ 16LS mk II or the BAT VK-51SE.

So if you're happy with the music you're hearing now, save money and buy more software.

Sorry for rambling,

John
I've used a CJ 17LS on my BAT VK500 without a problem.
This would be a nice combo if you like a more relaxed
and slightly laid back sound. If your considering a
CJ preamp I would recommend a listen to the CJ CT-5.
I just replaced my 17LS with the CT-5 and the difference
is huge. I think a Premier 350/CT-5 combo would be very
nice.

Good luck