CJ vs. BAT vs. THOR preamps, who's best?

Thanks John ...and thanks for the video of miles and John C. that was super.

I've thought about relating this incident to Ayre... though they directed me to this place and said many people have positive things to say about them on the warranty forms they submit.

I sold a pc to a member that is local. he picked it up today. He is far more well versed in what other high end audio dealers about the country are doing as he is a frequent flyer, so to speak, and agreed wholeheartedly with me as to the treatment he received from them as well. He was taken aback by this dealer’s incredible lack of a customer friendly stance.

The most fitting phrase is "They believe the world to be filled with diabetics, and feel they have the only insulin". Such a posture is indeed a poor one. A true shame.

I have to think as yourself that as so many other store fronts of high end audio are now attaining the bulk of their receipts for HT sales and installations, actions of this sort are surely contributory to 2 channels decline in popularity and likely demise.

It is ironic that such great designers and engineers as are the muscle and sinew of the industry have to allow skeletons such as these, to now and then become their sales structure.

I will give the dealership credit for one thing though, they didn’t try to move me off Ayre and onto another product line. I’ve spoken with some sellers (a far better term than dealer), that right off , have told me after I have specifically asked to hear a certain thing… “No, you don’t want that… you wan’t a xxxx”. the greatest power there is in the universe is 'mind reading'.

I’ve never been much good at that mind reading thing but apparently, once surrounded by magga buck audio gear on a daily basis, special powers are acquired… far beyond those of mortal men. Again, not privy to telepathy myself, I did have a vision prior to leaving the store. I saw them losing $3000 that day, and some other amounts down the road. Clear as a bell.

Gee. Maybe I do have some power. I have the one power they will find as their Achilles. The power of choice. As all consumers do. I think it trumps their’s.

The singular power, just that one special gift, required to obtain my money, and my continued business was humility. Too bad.

It was left off their short list. More's the pity.

01-30-07: Blindjim

Thanks John ...and thanks for the video of miles and John C. that was super.

I've thought about relating this incident to Ayre... though they directed me to this place and said many people have positive things to say about them on the warranty forms they submit.

No problem with the video, it was fun to take a peek of MTV before MTV.

The fact that many people say positive things on the warranty forms simply reveals that those who give their money to this store are happy. It does not show all the money this store has turned away. Maybe they don't want to be bigger who knows. I do think enough of Charles that I'd let him know my opinion. Classy manufacturers welcome even negative feedback, as they realize that no one is perfect, and it only makes them stronger. If all of the negative experiences go unreported, then problems are never addressed. Though I have no respect for the store that you dealt with, I have enough for Charles and Ayre, that I would just offer them my impressions of how this dealer displayed their products.
Mention your friends reaction to this dealer as well. I would think that Charles would want to properly display his equipment. Who knows, he may even offer you an in-home demo for free.

Best,
John

I'll give it some thought, John. I hate to wind up getting a rep as a trouble maker or whistle blower. I think by and large the makers are aware who are their better bets. It shows in their orders of pieces from those self same makers. I tend to think the makers have resigned themselves to it. A necessary evil. Business is business. I'm unaware of any maker of high end audio that once a dealership is found out to be less than friendly, or high handed acting towards the consumer, or even those which are wildly unethical, that they would pull their line from them.

competition is great. Dealerships in high end don't see it that way. Instead of boone, it's bane in their eyes. they lay in wait for the consumer who will simply 'lay down' for them... or those who are either fearful or ignorant of the web. The dealers sure fear it too. Those uncompromising attitudes do hamstring earnings in fact. So be it. Word of mouth and the power of choice will spell out what the future holds for them.

The disadvantage that comes to you and I, is the increase in price and less availability. More sales, means more demand. Greater demand means greater production. Those steps equate to increases in profits. Profits allow for more funds being cast towards developments in design technology. Advances in technology will become more cost effective.

More production, means more employment. it also means more proliferation of the products in demand and therefore less cost per item produced. Sure would be nice if the $10,000 items were only $6,000... and the $6000 were $4000... and so forth. A higher level of standards would be had by more people. More people having a higher level of gear more reddily would induce more exchange. More word of mouth. More...

Instead of the now so escalating costs we endure as the rule. those spiraling costs of equipment, the separatist attitudes of the dealers, fuel the waning interests of exceptional audio and the industry itself. Higher prices suits less people. Less people is less people. That path leads quickly to an end as it proposes a built in, predestined finality.

So to echo the words of that ill fated soulful little wailer from Port Arthur Texas, "Get it while ya can"

01-31-07: Blindjim
I think by and large the makers are aware who are their better bets.

I disagree. I think they only know what they are told. If everyone says they're great, they can start believing their own press clippings. They cannot go by sales alone, since markets in different areas will provide different quotas. For instance, a store in Mississippi cannot be expected to sell as many preamps as a store in New York City. That's enough about that though.

As for your utopian high end philososphy, yes it would be nice, but don't hold your breath. Like it or not, the glory days of stereo are gone, at least in the USA. Here is a quote from Steve Keiser, the 'K' in B&K, and the designer of the legendary B&K ST-140 amp. This interview is from May 2006.

"IN REALITY…

The industry has changed since the B&K days. The addition of home theatre has had an enormous impact
in that now a video component has been added to the total home entertainment experience as well as the
addition of surround sound.

Actually, this means that dedicated music listening audio systems are loosing favor to home theatre, since
the various surveys that I have seen have revealed a steady decline in two channel audio for the last 20
years. The number of dealers retailing audio-only two channel equipment continues to dwindle, and the
perspective buyers and market for two channel equipment is also depleting. Still, there remains an
opportunity for manufacturers who are manifesting the highest caliber of performance they can possibly
muster from their designs, and these companies can have a shot at being successful. It is exceedingly
less likely, though, that an up and coming manufacturer (like Luminance) can be financially successful in
the long run, because the available market is about 75% smaller in the U.S. than when B&K was launched.

On the other hand, there exists today an international market which has largely supplanted the U.S. market
for most companies. So, factoring in the availability of the entire world at manufacturers’ disposal, the
market share to date is probably about 75% that of when B&K was launched, so the probability of success
for new companies is only slightly diminished as compared to 20 years ago."

Now that is only factoring in HT as a competitor, add in the Ipods and the new Microsoft Vista as entertainment competition, not to mention whatever another couple years down the road brings, I don't see mass production quantities of stereo equipment increasing the near future.

Not a pessimist, just a realist.

BTW, if the Thor doesn't quite work out, you may be interested in checking out the Audio Horizons TP 2.0. I know a couple guys who have sold some very expensive preamps who are raving about this factory direct unit. From what I understand, they have also just added a remote control. As soon as they come out with a fully balanced model I'll have to place an order.

John

John, Utopian? No. I'm from Tampa. Don't that make me a Tampan?.. In fact, I'm an idealist. it sucks but there you go. Optomistic pessamisim.

I saw that bit aobut the in home audition. When they make xlr? OK. For me, when they make remotes... but it's no matter now. I dun done it. The MK II should be shipped out today. So now I start out on a whole new journey. hopefully the BAT will work with the Thor. God I hope so.

I just figured it this way, "When you hear something that just knocks you out, it might be a good idea to have that thing instead of trying to resemble it with other stuff."

And, brother, it did knock me loopy... but only for the past three years... and I don't think it was set up as well as it could have been.

Mr. K, is onto something there. Hope against hope, it's likely going as he said. eg. Janis.