Best preamp is no preamp: always true?

Marakanetz, you make a good point. I guess it would be possible to have a high out put CD player with decent volume control of some kind and maybe a power amp with a good input section to combine to take the place of a pre-amp.

Someone else on this thread pointed out (I think), though, that the likelihood that the volume controls on most variable out CDP's will compete with the attenuators on good pre-amps is somewhat low---all other things being equal.

There is also the issue of impedance matching. Are there enough variable out CDP's that also have both sufficient gain and low impedance to "drive" an appropriately equipped (sufficient input stage) power amp properly? I don't know. Maybe this has been covered elsewhere in this thread. Sorry for the redundancy, if so.

Grannyring, Thanks for the corroboration. We just haven't heard a pre'-less setup done right, I suppose.

What about integrateds with a passive preamp built in? The Portal Panache or Song Audio's Vasant_K are basically configured as a power amp with a passive volume attenuator and input selector. I have not listened to these integrateds but have heard positive comments from satified users. Do these units exhibit the typical characteristics of a passive preamp (lacking dynamics, requires high input voltage from source, etc)?

Solman989

You can add the Manley Stingray to your list also. I guess no one will be wanting to own these integrated components now that you have let this cat out of the bag...they must sound very dull and lifeless.

Dave

Sogood51, sarcasm aside, these passively integrated units do have some advantages. They have less connectors and may have much less cable to drive. Due to size, weight and heat issues, in practice most of these passive integrated units will be limited in power output. High powered passive integrateds will probably be too cumbersome for most to use conviently. The irony is if one were to use remote control and place these passive integrateds where traditional power amps usually go, one would probably need many longer interconnects from source components to facitlitate their use. Of course multi-amping becomes more problematic as well.

I can only tell you what my ears told me. At the present time I am running a modest system with early Maggie I series, Threshold S/150, Sony Dvp 7000 with mods on all the above. My preamp consisted of an entry level Audio Note M Zero, although a budget preamp I found it to have very pleaseing sonics. But you know I wanted more and being that the Sony DVP 7000 was know as a better transport than player I thought I should try an outboard Dac. Enter the Benchmark Dac which I played for 3 weekend days ( lots of hours )and I ran it through my preamp then as the manual says I thought I would try it without the preamp. WOW !! the difference was stunning, much better sound stage, more dynamic, much more bloom in the instrument. Why would I run it through my preamp after this. I sold the Audio Note and go from my CDP-Dac-Amp, the benchmark Dac I believe does have an active gain stage for volume. Had I had a better preamp I might not have noticed the big difference. But I really like what I hear now. I'm on a budget but I will say I live in Vancouver and have been thinking about trying a preamp from a local builder known as Space Tech. Labs which has had some good reviews.