OTL or SET? Differences?

Hi Otto,

If I understand correctly, you're driving the Thiel 3.6's with your S-30. The Thiel's impedance is way below what the S-30 is comfortable with. Apparently you tried the Silverline Sonata also but it didn't have enough bass to do justice to Mahler ("Mauler"?).

High efficiency, ultradeep bass is the most expensive commodity in audio, both in money and in real estate (due to box size requirements). I'm sure you've thought of this, but one possibility might be easier-to-drive but bass-limited main speakers plus a subwoofer or two.

Another possibility is for you to keep the Thiels and use an autoformer to make life easier on your Atma-Spheres. Pauls Speltz's "Zero Autoformer" has saved the day for many an Atma-Sphere owner, and I have customers who use it with more conventional transformer-coupled tube amps. In the majority of cases the Zero is a significant net improvement, but not always, so it's best to try before buying if possible. I do think it would be in your case. I just sold my demo pair or else I'd offer to let you try them.

Pardon me now Otto, but since I've mentioned and suggested something I sell, there's a matter that I have to take care of. I have a stalker who sends me threatening e-mails when he perceives my posts as being overly commercial - according to his criteria, rather than Audiogon's. This morning I got one from him because of my first post in this thread, and I'm sure my mentioning the Zeros will cross the line he has drawn.

Stanhifi, I am tired of your threatening e-mails. Please stop sending them. Don't e-mail Otto as you threatened to either. If you have a problem with my conduct on Audiogon, let's get it out in the open. Go public and take your best shot, or leave me alone.

And Otto, if Stan does e-mail you to attack me, I would very much appreciate your letting me know. I'm not trying to hijack your thread so I invite you to let me know via e-mail if you'd rather, but I'll leave that up to you.

Okay getting back to Otto's situation, note that if you do go for a high efficiency, easy-to-drive fullrange speaker that has genuine deep bass you're talking about a very big enclosure. Without an idea of your price ballpark I hesitate to make specific recommendations among new speakers. In used speakers I'd suggest the big Altec Model 19's which show up occasionally for ballpark a grand or so used (more for a pair in very good condition, but still less than new speakers of comparable performance).

Finally, is building your own enclosures a possibility? If so, prhaps I can offer a suggestion or two that would work well with the S-30.

Duke

Hello Otto...Greetings from Australia !!!
I have tried several good Amplifiers on the Horning Alkibiades 99db,which have very deep bass and the appropiate big enclosure...Rushtons ,comments of the Atma-sphere S30 are spot on "On the flip side, the Atma-Sphere OTLs will be very neutral, very detailed, highly resolving -- in the words of a listening partner here: pristing like a clear glass onto the music. They won't make the music more beautiful, you'll simply get what's coming from your front-end source without editorial."
The Tom Evans "Soul S15" SET Cass A falls somewhere in between my current amplifier,the KR Audio Stereo Kronzilla and the Atma-sphere...The "Soul" controlled the bass on the Hornings better and being a KT88 valve,you could tweak the sound a bit...I would say it was a bit more involving,but it needed a active pre-amp ,where the Atm-sphere and KR are happy with a passive...the KR Audio Kronzilla was in another league...also many would argue that it is not a "true" Set amplifier ,as it uses,like the "Soul",a SS front end...the Kronzilla simply was a step above all of the amplifiers I have heard in control,air and musicality...the PRAT is just great...the only amplifier ,I reckon would compete ,would be the VAC or Canary 300B push/pull...hope this helps...
Regards
Helmut

FWIW, one thing that OTLs and SETs have in common is that neither has any hysteresis loss in the output transformer.

SETs do not reverse the magnetic field in the transformer, and OTLs don't by definition.

Removing the transformer also removes the argument against push-pull. You don't have hysteresis loss, so you don't get the attendant loss of detail that is an effect hysteresis loss. This means that push pull need not be a 'sin' as mentioned above.

Of course our stuff is all-triode too.

Hysteresis loss is the property of magnetic devices wherein it takes a little bit of energy to reverse the magnetic field in the device. In the case of output transformers, this energy comes from the signal and is responsible for a loss of low level detail and an attendant increase in low signal distortion.

Duke, sorry to hear you are having worries. So far in the years I've been on this forum, no-one has challenged me in the way you mention. For that matter I've not had any posts that could not be approved (that I remember anyway...), but I try to be really careful not to cross the line. Too much:)

Excellent post Rushton, I completely agree with your comments, especially with reference to full range music and the typical listening impressions when listening through OTL vs SET, its true, its true.

Tubegroover, thanks.

Audiokinesis/Duke, you're consistently one of the most balanced and helpful people posting on Audiogon. I'm amazed someone has made a point of attacking you; that's unconscionable. Thanks for all that you've added here over the years, and I hope the nonsense doesn't put you off.

Ralph, I've never heard that hysterisis loss explanaton before. Thank you.