2. amps-preamps
  3. 1151261716

Do I even need or want a preamp?

For over 5 years my home audio system had been stable. I used a Wadia 6 direct into a Jeff Rowland Model 1 with Synergistic Research balanced interconnects, out to a pair of Aerial 10Ts (Synergistic Research cables). I knew that the speakers could use more power than the Roland could give, and that the Wadia 6 was now pretty outdated. I recently replaced the Wadia and the Rowland with an Accuphase DP-57 CD player and a used Levinson 336 amp, plus replaced the interconnects with a pair of Tara Labs Air2. The end result was that the Aerials came alive and I am hearing MUCH more detail without harshness.

I brought home a BAT preamp to try out and have to say that whatever differences (other than volume capability) seemed quite subtle. The bass might have been a bit tighter, but it seemed like some of the ambient information was lost. Considering the $6500 list price of the preamp, I am trying to figure out if a preamp is even helpful for my system. The Accuphase has its own internal volume control. Never having owned a preamp before, I don't know what I was expecting, but improvement in the sound did not seem to be present with the preamp. I am now leaning towards not adding a preamp to the system, but want to know if I'm simply uninformed about any benefits that one might do for my current system.

Thanks in advance for helping me learn!
brian_scherzer
denf
241 posts
 
This is an interesting thread for me as I was a die-hard "no preamp" guy for about the last 10 years or so. I almost always bought CDP's that either had a variable out, or ones that had lots of gain/voltage. Well, recently on the persuasive suggestion of an audio friend, I decided to audition a BAT VK-3ix, as my current system seemed to lack the critical dynamics that make music reproduction more life-like. Much to my pleasant surprise, not only were the dynamic shadings (both macro & micro) improved, but all other parameters - soundstage depth, height, noise floor and of course bass control were better. All of this with no detectable loss of any fine details that I thought would be the trade-off. (These were all more than just subtle improvements btw). So I guess it show you that it IS better to try something before assuming the results! as they will "vary with mileage.." (My current setup btw is the incredible Esoteric UX-3SE, NuForce 9SE, M.L. Summits in a dedicated room). I also heard the same wholesale improvments with my Opera Audio Droplet CDP.
tubeears
136 posts
 
DenF,

Nice system and nicely set up.
There seems to be a subtle consistancy to the thrust of this thread. Your mention of the Nu-Force amps (in your system) brings up a real point. I recently switched out my single ended tube amps for a solid state amp (this merry-go-round is perenial and has been for many years). I found with my SE Tube amps that they really enjoyed the quicker motion of a good tube pre-amp on the top end. The "alive" feeling that comes with SE amps, and that is also shared with the Nu-Force (and other amps of the breed.. ie: Bel Canto and Channel Islands) is nicley mated with a good tube input. Mine worked the best with a DJH Sig. (Cary/AES). My current Muse 160mk2 jst drips with life using a Passive.

btw: I see that you used a RL Pre/Emm 2B. Did you like it compared to others ?

Tubby
dne
141 posts
 
I can comment on both using a passive preamp and going direct. I used one of the best passives, the Reference Line Preeminence 1, which was superb in my system (and a very significant improvement above the McCormack TLC-1, which I used previously.)

But, when I got a Benchmark DAC1, which has variable out, the improvement going direct to the amp was very nice improvement over going through the passive Reference Line. Most recently, going direct was reconfirmed when I (just last night) connected my tuner (Onkyo Integra T9090II), which has variable out, direct to the amp. Again, the improvement over the Reference Line was significant. So, for me, the passive bested any active preamp, and going direct bested the passive. (Interconnects used were Nordost SPM and Frey.)
denf
241 posts
 
Thanks for the nice compliment Tubeears. I really did like the Reference Line passive (it's for sale BTW:>) It worked wonderfully with my now sold BAT P5 phono stage acting as nothing more than a volume attenuator, leaving all the dynamics and subtle details intact in that application. I think it is one of the best passives out there, but I really haven't tried that many - Adcom GPA-750 and an older McCormack TLC-1 passive were the only others that I have owned.

And yes! The fabulous NuForces do seem to "gel" quite nicely with my BAT VK-3siSE, (hmmmm...must be something about this whole "SE" designation - Esoteric UX-3SE, NuForce 9SE, BAT VK3ixSE) Too bad now I can't afford some type of car with an "SE" badge!
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