Solid state; when would you use tubes?


If you had an integrated Levinson, Classe, Meridian or even something good but less expensice like an Arcam, or Musical Fidelity, when would you use tubes? And how? Is it better to add a tube preamp, or better to add a tubed CD player or something?
biomimetic
Any thoughts on how to make an integrated system more "musical" to use a crappy audiophile word?

I think you'll probably need to get more specific with your question (which integrated amp are you using? what is the rest of the system? what is it you're missing from it now, or what have you heard that you are striving for?). I have a Portal Panache SS integrated and find it very satisfying and engaging. Clear, fast, great imaging, and lots of other audiophile adjectives to heap further praise if you like. It works very well and I enjoy it very much. Overall, on most of the music I like to listen to (acoustic, vocals, folk, alt-country, jazz, small-scale classical) I prefer my SET rig, but the Panache is probably more versatile overall in that it can master more complex, fast, and layered music better, as well as doing quite well with the other stuff. With my personal preferences in music, if I had to choose one I'd take the SET without any hesitation. That is a personal choice and, as I said earlier, I'd suggest you try to listen to as many different options as you can with your own musical preferences and make your own choices.

California, more specifically Northern CA, is my favorite place to ride! Those big dualies rule in the mountains and canyons around there. Another one you should seriously consider is the newer KTM Adventurer, which could be equally as versatile as the GS. I think you may have misunderstood me; I never said anything about the "Airhead Oilhead thing" to agree with. I've never owned an Airhead GS. The airhead is a great bike for it's time, and overall, but it lacks power on the pavement, and leaves much to be desired as far as suspension and brakes are concerned. It is a dated bike and there are better choices IMO though it suits many just perfectly - THAT definitely IS a hot debate in the big dual-sport world. If I were moving in that direction I'd sooner get a more dirt oriented bike. The Multi vs. GS debate (if there is one?) really isn't as similar as you may think to tubes vs. SS: Those two bikes do not serve the same purpose...there is little to debate where that is concerned IMO. The MS takes styling cues from the big dual-sport bikes, but the resemblence is only skin-deep. It doesn't have the tires, wheels, nor ground clearance to make it much good off pavement. Those specs are not debatable, they are simply black and white facts, if you will. Although SS and tube amps are different, though both serve to amplify music, I think the lines drawn in the sand are not as clear in terms of looking at the specs on paper, because, in the case of audio gear, the black and white does not tell the whole story. Both technologies are capable of reproducing music quite well. Each has inherent distortions and idiosyncracies to varying degrees. But some of the "distoritions" actually make the music more pleasing to some folks (in spite of the fact that they look "bad" on paper).

You are quite right that ABS does not mix with riding on dirt. As a rule I turn it off whenever I ride off road (as would any GS rider with any sense). Doing otherwise could be dangerous. All the Oilhead GS's allow you to turn off the ABS option, and will indicate on the dash when it is turned off, as well as when it is operating properly. The brake feature I was referring to was not ABS, but Linked Brake Systems where the front and rear brake controls are linked by computer and using either one will engage both in a programmed ratio. Also not good for dirt as you often want to use the rear brake independently to slide the rear end, and for slow-speed control.

Marco
Jax2

If you are ever riding in the SF Bay area of Northern California, look me up and come have a listen to my SET rig. I wouldn't trade it for anything
Jax2

If you are ever riding in the SF Bay area of Northern California, look me up and come have a listen to my SET rig. I wouldn't trade it for anything

I just took a look at your system page, Doc: WOW! I'm already packing a large suitcase which I'll send ahead with my wife and dog. I'll be taking the back roads so I should be down there in a few days. You don't mind if we all stay a while and enjoy your system do you?! Nicely done.

You live in a beautiful area, but, seriously, I don't think I'll make it down anytime soon. I used to make a point of riding and camping around the northern areas around Yreaka and Willow Creek (Klammath River Highway), at least once a year, but it's been harder to make time these past few years. Did Howard (Boa2) come listen to your sysem? He sold me my first GS motorcycle back in 1996. Next time I'm down there you may just hear from me! Thanks for sharing your system here on Audiogon.

Marco
"Did Howard (Boa2) come listen to your sysem?"

Howard and his wife were at my house 4 weeks ago for a listening session.
I'll weight in here with an opinion. Can't guarranty the spelling or grammer though : )

In sum I'm going to strongly agree with chazboo's very nice post. It's really not a question of tube or solid state. It's a question of what speaker you are driving and which amp makes the best match for it in your ear's opinion.

A story: I am a Quad devotee. Loved the 63's since '83. Found them to mate very very well with Futterman OTL's (150 amps of big tube power as modified by George Kaye and NYAL). A match made in heaven. I used tube and solid state preamps. For years I used a Levinson ref 32. Nice system.

But quads, like any speaker, has limitations. I wanted more (who doesn't) sound pressure, more bass. So I explored big quads (989s) and wound up with a wonderful sounding stacked arrangement made by a fellow in Montreal (thanks Stew!). At around the same time I auditioned a pair of (ss) Halcro 58s in my system (good reviews and low distortion specs peaked my interest) Wonder of wonders the Halcro outperformed the Futtermans (IMHO) in my system. So I got 'em but could not part with my Futterman's. Now it happened that I had to get one of my big quads repaired so I pulled out my old pair of '63 for a while. Still sounded nice (but not in the same league as the stacked quads). For a lark I put the Futtermans back in for some futher comparison. Jaw Drop! The Futterman's gave the Halcro's a real run and in many respects sounded better. When I got my big guys back up no such luck: the Futtermans just didn't have it.

Moral to the story: what you are driving will make all the diff. The double stacked quads are a rather difficult load for the tubes. They got all congested and couldn't control the bottom end. On the relatively easier load of the standard '63s the tubes were magic. I was torn as to which was perferable. My (non audiophile) wife had no such reservations clearly favoring the '63s with the tubes.

Now I still have the tubes: they are in a second system I have driving LS3/5a's. And yes, a glorious sound. The Halcro's are driving the stacked quads as I speak in an all Halcro system. I am now going to try some tube phono sections and a tube cd player to see if they offer improvements to the overall sound of my system.

We shall see what we shall see!