845s: To biamp or not

Paul, I would agree that an American counterpart to the Cybers would cost at least twice as much, but the parts, build quality, and basic circuit show shortcuts to allow the low price. I do like the sonics, however.

The power supply is very simple and limited. It is probably why you had your failure with an output tube that drew more current.

I suspect that there would be only minor variations among 845 amps, with the wiring, output caps, and ac filtering. Better of everything including tubes will improve the sound. The question is what you are willing to add to your basic model.

Tbg, I'm very curious to hear specific shortcuts in parts or "circuit" that you see in the Cybers. The parts are all just about top-tier, if not top-tier. Ditto on the build quality. They are put together very well and the enclosures are faar from simple - the amps could be much cheaper if they were in basic boxes, I am sure.

I may agree with you about the power supply - but, with a Class A design, when you are at 100% power all the time, why build a power supply that can supply substantially more than will ever be drawn? More than the tubes they planned for could ever draw, that is. I certainly agree that it is a least a weak point that they don't allow these higher-current tubes to be used.

Maybe they didn't think of it or want to deal with the issue or maybe it was a conscious decision. Some elements of the amps - like the 5687 drivers which are not common at all, and the designers explanation for their choice - have lead me to believe that a lot of thought did go into these amps.

The fact that they are as quiet as they are also makes me think this isn't simple, basic stuff. It is not easy to make 845 amps as quiet as these are.

Paul, there is no regulation on the power supply and it is just big enough. The caps on the outputs are of unknown origins. I agree that the build quality is okay, but the wiring, inputs and outputs, and circuit are obviously directed at cost cutting.

I am certainly not saying that I don't like them, nor am I saying that I would pay more for them given their quality.

I opted to replace the wiring and to make some reasonable efforts to make them quieter. They will probably become my backup amps or remain in my summer home.

I don't know about the 845s, but my 211s are normal for 10 volt filament amps. Fortunately I have 93 db efficient speakers rather than 103 db efficient speakers where the hum would be objectionable.

I think Enjoy the Music was right about these. They do sound outstanding and can even be as satisfying as the Onganku 211 for far less money.

Tbg,

The main caps on my amps are Rubycon. I'm pretty sure *all* of them were. Maybe they are doing things differently now (mine are brand new) or maybe this is a difference between the 211 and 845 versions, though that seems unlikely.

Again, I thought chokes and oversized power supplies were more appropriate for non class A amps - but I am no expert...

My amps are indeed unusually quiet. The Art Audio Carissa may have been just as quiet but not more so. Talking about speaker hum as well as mechanical tranny hum. Absolutely none of the latter, unlike *many* SET amps...

Anyway we're both happy with them.

What are your "main" amps?

Paul, I saw some Rubycons in mine when I had it open, but I know that the big caps on the output are not Rubycons. It may be that they have changed this in recent amps as mine are from the first batch brought in.

You are quite right about the iron not vibrating. Many of the American made transformers do vibrate quite audibly. As I said, for the price I am very satisfied, but I did decide to not put an additional $750 in them to replace wire, inputs and outputs, and caps.

The amp that I have been using since I ran Beauhorn Virtuosos is the Reimyo PAT777. There is no question in my mind that this SET using WE300Bs is the best sounding amp, but it is very expensive (five times that of the Cybers) and only has 8 watts. Until I got the Cyber 211s, I was seriously thinking about limiting myself to 100 db efficient speakers.The Cybers, however, cause my Acapella LaCampanellas to soar.

I am in love with my H-Cat preamp and soon expect my 100 watt H-Cat amp. I have never heard one, especially the new one, but if it equals the line stage, I am done with both the Reimyo and Cybers.