Integrated amp for my Sonus Faber Guarneri

Lloydelee21, Jman, Egidius...thanks for responding. As for what seems missing in the sound to wifey and I, of course there is the "small speaker" factor as we are used to floor-standers with 12-inch woofers, but that's to be expected. I don't mean to offend, but I'm at a loss of words to for this. The overall sound quality to us sounds "smooth" and "refined" in a way that seems maybe suitable for well-dressed lounge lizards sipping fancy cocktails and discussing the outcome of a polo game, rather than "real" in a way that would appeal to people like us who often travel rough and listen to a wide range of music from around the world for music's sake.

It's hard for me to describe, but I'll try. It seems as though the GHs sort of bundle the sounds together such that the overall presentation is flattened out, as if the musicians are far away, rather than up-close and personal. They sweeten and soften all the sounds and take the "edge" out of them, with an overall "mushy" effect. It seems this way with each of the amps I've tried them with, although all are SS amps only. Jman, yes I would add a tad bit "thin" to that description, and also a bit "dry" with one of my SS amps, but not the McIntosh.

I'm in a mid-sized city in Japan and limited in budget to used gear, so I can't easily find some of the brands and model names thrown around in the 'Gon here. I took home the MA6800 to try the GHs with because the similar MA6900 was recommended more than once on this thread, and the GHs seem very underpowered with my old Luxmans. The Luxman L-550 class A produces lovely sweet sounds that have "oomph" to them through my other speakers, but it sounds somewhat more harsh, dry, and "mushy" through the GHs. The GHs sound less "mushy" with the McIntosh, though there is obviously a loss of detail with that amp.

My wife thinks the problem is just the "style" of their sound not being suitable for our taste, while I still feel they should greatly show-up my old Yamaha NS-100Xs with the right source and amplification, but unfortunately I'm running out of time on my (expensive) trial period on these. In the meantime, while the GHs are obviously smoother with classical strings and woodwinds, overall we still prefer the slightly rougher but much fuller and "open" sounds of the Yamahas for most genres we've compared, and we've been comparing back and forth for two weeks now (unfortunately of course only with my mid-fy equipment).

I greatly appreciate all of your input, and hope this unaudiophilish description might mean something to you ppl, such that maybe you can imagine what I'm hearing and might recognize it as possibly either the actual character of the GHs or the fault of my equipment and/or room acoustics.

D-I-L-Eye,

that is helpful. First, a caveat: i have not heard the Yamaha speaker. Now on to comments:

1. The Gs are very smooth...mellifluous. That is the SF sound...particularly in the Homage Range...Guarneri, Amati, Stradivari.

2. They are going to set the soundstage back a bit...like sitting mid-row instead of front row.

3. They are not going to give a boost in the upper bass that will give you a fullness of sound that a much larger, well designed floorstander will give you.

4. With all of that said, here is what i would say about your comments and my own personal experience with the Gs.

a. Side by side comparison with Quad 2905 (along with 3 audio pros with 20+ yrs experience each) showed that the G has every bit of detail, nuance and melodic capability of an electrostatic...that is saying something!

b. just because a speaker is smooth...does not mean it lacks detail or life. it can sometimes be a matter of letting the ear adjust to the fact that the speaker is just effortless in its delivery style of that detail. Whereas some speakers make a point of delivering that detail. A digital (over-sharp) photo vs. a medium format shot. Medium format is smooth, rich, but wont zing you with detail...but upon close comparison to the digital shot...you (may) be surprised the medium format has at least as much detail...just more balanced and natural in its presentation. AGain...i am not saying this is the case here...i do not know the Yamaha speaker...i am saying while you still have the G's...make sure to listen in a relaxed manner...dont try to listen for "decay" or "individual notes"...listen for live music.

sometimes, i go into the next room, and see which speakers sounds like someone is playing next door.

c. i also will add that the G's need room to breathe...meaning placement is important. 6-8' in between the inner edges of the speaker...toe-in up to your ear...but 3' from back wall depending on room and your bass levels in-room.

When they breathe...they R-E-A-L-L-Y breathe magic.

d. read the review from STereophile...july 94?...online i believe for free. they indicate the speaker will react to the electronics fed it...from good hifi to "breathing music".

e. what's the rest of your electronics? to be fair, that has a big affect...but i totally understand you may not wish to play around with everything for this speaker. i am only saying it will matter in a speaker that is this revealing. the better speakers usually will reveal differences in electronics quite significantly.

hope that helps for now....feel free to ping with any other questions. good luck.

D-I-L-Eye,

Another thought...depending on the music you play, i could understand your desire to trade for "larger, more open" sound. Its all about selecting the characteristics you cherish the most, and compromising in others areas...no perfection!

On that basis, you (may) wish to go the other Sonus Faber range in a more full-range speaker for comparable amount of money. Many people have said there is no "bad sounding SF" speaker and i am inclined to agree, having heard the majority of them.

You may lose that last bit of "single malt whiskey" refinement from the G...but pick up a very high quality refinement with much, much greater presence, openness (and frankly, bass) which might suit your music selection better.

Again, good luck and pls keep us posted on how things work out.

Thank you Loydelee21 for taking so much time, and your consideration and thought on this very big issue with me. I really appreciate this.

Today I invited my old friend who is a Julliard graduate, ex-player for the NY Phil, and now 1st cello in the symphony of the city I live in now in Japan. I would say his ears are pretty good. :) When he arrived, I had a Shostakovich string quartet playing, and before he even entered the room the Gs are in, having heard a few notes, he announced that they are good speakers. He is a critical person when it comes to classical music, as you can imagine, and would not say such a thing meaninglessly. Without listening to genres other than string quartets, he decided that the Gs were best for that area and he guessed he would not enjoy listening to them with, for example, Talking Heads live in concert bootleg uploads on youtube... ahem...Anyways, the first few seconds he was listening to the speakers, but soon afterwords he was listening to the musicians and their music.

After about an hour of listening (and eating the many delicious bribes wifey prepared), with some comparison to the Yamahas (very little, actually, as he had heard them before at my house and knew their character already), his suggestion was that I keep the Gs and use them to study the chamber music of the great composers with, as he claims it is through chamber music that they experimented with their ideas, and once I get better educated in that area we could discuss those areas of interest better.

However, he was also convinced of the Gs being great over a very narrow range, a range more important to him than to me. He did not know about Sonus Faber, and had no biases, and thought they were remarkably good, but suggested I borrow a pair of Rogers LS3/5 from our friend the oboe player and try them side-by-side, because he thinks they are also quite pleasant for chamber music but without the "cluttered extra trappings of Italian fashion overkill all over them."

He then brought one of his cellos into my house from his car, and began to play various bits by Dvorak, Shostokovich, Bach, and on and on...with the result of shockingly awakening me from imagining that the Gs somehow sound "real." Side by side with a live cello in a small room, the difference is so vast that I have to change my idea of what stereo is, and appreciate the Gs, as you said, from a different perspective.

By the way, he plays a real Guarneri cello, owned by the symphony, at concerts, and said its character is having a weak bass, and the mids and highs are tied together more than with most cellos - sounds very familiar, eh? - intentional voicing in the Gs by SF designers?

Having these Gs in my home right now is certainly an interesting exploration.

About my system:

Source: iMac playing flac or wav files via Toslink to iDecco DAC output to integrated amps: Luxman L-507, L-309 (both starting from 1973), L-550 (1983), or McIntosh MA6800 (all amps SS). Belden Studio 497 Mk2 speaker cables.

My Gs are about 2 m apart, toed-in a bit, and my seat is at the apex of a triangle formed with their separation as a base.

I know this is a low-to-mid-fy system and inadequate to show what the Gs can do, but I think it does tell me in relative terms at least where the strengths of the Gs lie in the spectrum of musical genre in terms of my own taste, and that the Gs for me are exquisitely superior for small acoustic groups but inferior to my lesser speakers for most other genres.