Options to upgrade from Cambridge Integrated

Well, I guess you're going to get every opinion possible here. Do the integrated, spend more on amps, spend more on speakers, etc. They're all right, of course, it all matters. Notice how we're trying to drive up your budget here -- "spend it all on speakers (or amp) now" -- the implication of course being that you'll later come up with the same amount to spend on the other piece later!

I also vote for the speakers. In particular, choose the speakers first. Then you'll know how much you have left to spend on the amp! And you can demo amps with your actual speakers (once you own them) which is important. So even if you buy them close together, I'd do speakers first.

I will say that I am not a big fan of integrateds. I shopped hard for integrateds about 5 years ago, and compared the Cambridge, NAD, NAD silver series, Arcam A60, Marantz, AR Complete, all head-to-head. In the end, I went with separates. I do think the AR is smoother and less forward than the Cambridge. But if you can save your pennies and buy separates with a $1000 (used) or $2000 (new) budget, it's a big leap up. Integrateds in that price range don't sound as good, at least not on my speakers. In the $500 range you'd need to stick with an integrated, but I just wonder if you will hear a significant enough difference over your current amp.

I agree with Ehart when he says the AR is smoother and less forward than the Cambridge. I don't think you have to go with separates to better any of the integrated amps he lists. I think there are other integrated amps--Qinpu, Vecteur, SimAudio, perhaps Bryston and Creek too--that will outdo any of them and sound better than any similarly-priced separates. (That's without even looking at tubes.) Those amps are all more pricey than you want, though.

I think Ehart has another point when he says a $500 integrated may not give you a big enough step up to be worthwhile. We're not trying to drive your costs up here, but a too-small step can wind up more expensive than a big one in the long run.

Ehart and I do seem to have a different take on the relative importance of speakers and amp, and certainly there may be good reasons for going either way. If I were you I guess I would do just as you are doing--replace the speakers first, since they are the weakest element in the chain just now. After you get used to your new speakers, you may find you have a better idea of exactly what you want in an amplifier. The search will likely be a lot easier (although not necessarily less expensive) once you know that.

I absolutely agree with Jaybo and Bob_reynolds that there's more bang for the buck with money applied to speakers and with Ehart that finding speakers you really like should be your first priority.

Having said that, if what you're looking for are pieces you plan to live with for awhile, my experience is that you'll want to find an amp that's reasonably well in balance with the quality of the speakers you buy.

I owned the Cambridge 540, the first version, at the same time I had the Audio Refinement Complete, bought it for a friend's system, and the difference in sonics between the Cambridge and the ARC was greater than you'd expect for the difference in the prices, certainly greater in a relative sense than the difference between the ARC and the Simaudio I-5 I bought to replace the ARC.

When the Cambridge went to my friend to replace a Rotel integrated, because she wanted remote control, there wasn't much difference either of us could hear but when I found a good deal on a Creek 4330 and swapped it for the Cambridge, the difference was obvious, certainly worth the difference of $175 between what we sold the Cambridge for and what the Creek cost.

I think Tobias and I are on the same page here. I agree that an amp upgrade is important (when budget permits), and also with choosing the speakers first so that you can try amps to see what sounds best with your speakers and room.

I have not tried the integrateds that Tobias mentions. People also speak well of the Plinuis integrated, by the way. The problem for me was that most of these were out of my price range (and most were not available to demo locally). I paid $1200 (demo gear) for separates that listed for $1800. For that money, I couldn't find an integrated locally that sounded as good (it's counter-intuitive, but in many cases you pay more for a good integrated, and there seem to be fewer "deals" on integrateds).

Some of this may be specific to the speakers you have. I use an old British pair (Celestion S300) that I like and have had drivers replaced on. These have a reputation for presenting uneven loads across frequency range (in other words, requiring a powerful amp). I found that the typical 60WPC integrated just didn't cut it (but might do great with your speakers). It seems to be relatively easy to build (and cheap to buy) a 135WPC power amp. But harder (and more expensive) to put the same power into an integrated -- 100WPC integrateds are quite a bit more expensive than the 60WPC flavor (and are more expensive than reasonably priced separates).

Integrateds have advantages, of course -- small space requirements and clean/simple/elegant installation (fewer cables, etc.). Separates have advantages too -- if you think you will want to do further upgrades, it's nice to be able to upgrade pre and power separately (I later replaced my amp with a large step up, but have my original pre-amp -- which is where most of the money went on the original purchase).

I don't doubt that you can find an integrated that will sound great (and maybe even in your price range). The AR Complete *does* sound better than the Cambridge. And I expect the SimAudio and Plinius would be excellent (if you can afford them). Again, I suggest you pick your speakers first, then try some integrateds and separates. I recommend buying locally so you can haul your speakers in to a shop to demo (or even better, bring gear home to try).

I don't think the advice you're getting is really that different from person to person, just different emphasis. I hope that helps, and best to you in your search.

Thanks for all of the feedback. It has been very useful in helping me prioritize based on my budget/needs. I think, based on my budget, that I should focus on upgrading the speakers 1st then the amp. I have added the Monitor Audio Silver RS6 and Revel concerta F12 to my list of candidates. Now all I need to do is spend some time listening to them to narrow the field. Any other speakers I should consider in the same price range?

I won't make the final decision until we are in the new house which should be by the end of the year. After I have decided on the speakers I can look at the amp side of the system.