ARC ls26 vs.SF Line-3/se

I have both a Line 3SE+ and the ARC Ref3.

Frankly, hard to say one is better. The Ref3 does throw a bigger soundstage across, while the Line 3 has a deeper soundstage - take your pick there. The Ref3 at first seems to be more dynamic, but then you realise the Line 3 has more control, less euphony, even though it has more tubes. I have found the Ref 3 benefits from a high end PC (20 amp) whereas the Line 3 is less sensitive, though I use a fantastic Granite audio silver PC to wring out the last bit of transparancy. Remote on the Line 3 much more funky. If you speak to Chris at PCX he will tell you the OP amp upgrade with new power supply is a big difference over Line 3SE and I bet the OP ams in the Ref 3 are cheaper?

I wanted to sell one of these - but am totaly conflicted!! In other words either amp will give you much satisfaction, as god as it gets and will never be the weak part of your system, especially with the balanced connections they both have. Both amps are dead quiet, same as solid state in this area, maybe slightly less noise (ear pressed to a ribbon tweeter) with the Line 3 matched with my SF Power 3's (another great bargain in Audio, no better implementation of push pull design IMHO, but needs the right tube complement to perform best).

Let me know if you want more detail

Radical Steve,

You've jumped up a model and about $3500 in price. Spaz is asking about the ARC Ls26, not the Ref 3.

I would gather the point here is this. If the Line 3SE is
so closely comparable w/ the Ref 3, chances are the LS26
would no be a worthwhile upgrade path. This of course, based
on Radical Steve's experience. I have only auditioned the
Ref 3, but have no experience with the SF. BTW, what is the
approx retail on the Line 3 SE.

If I am to believe you two guys, then there must be alot of hype on the Ref 3. Everything I read and most everyone here who owns one or has auditioned it thinks it is one of the finest sounding preamps made today.

No offense to your Line 3, but many would consider it a dated design and say comparing a Ref 3 to it is like comparing apples or oranges. Upgrades or not, it doesn't change the basic circuit, which, like the Power 3 amps, is nothing special. The designs of the Sonic Frontier pieces were hardly state of the art at their time, and there have been criticisms of poor board layout, where heat caused damage, criticisms of marginal circuit parameters where parts were stressed and then blew out. I knew two audiophiles who had SFL2 and Line 3 preamps where parts failed in both the power supplies and main units. So much for all the quality parts used in them. They obviously did something wrong in their implementation.

Saxo,

Which tube equipment does not have heat related damage? I have seen/heard many ARC VT series power amp failing due to poor tube layout and heat damage, but I will not declare it a poor sounding product though I do prefer SF Power 2/3 over VT-100/200. Same goes for other ARC pre or other tube gears out there.

And what's a dated design? If you can put in plain English what ARC has done that make them so much more advanced, many of us will be delighted to read. Or how SF circuit was dated? I am an EE by training, though my specialty is in semiconductor manufacturing so I feel I am not qualified to make comments on circult layout. I think Spaz is asking a question that related to sound, not design, board layout, circuit paramenters, etc. Good sound is often the execution of fine parts selection and circuit design, does not have to be SOTA to sound superb. Take the venerable Marantz model 9 or McIntosh 275, they were not SOTA back then and far from SOTA now, but why are they so desirable still after 30+ years?

This question has been asked before on Audiogon and many many owners have vouched the reliablity of their SF L2/3. You can't expect a tube gear to perform w/o issue when users start to try out NOS tubes that perform slightly out of the designed operating range, it's like modifying your car engine and call your car unreliable afterward.

So let's stick to the thread and only address the sound part.