VTL 5.5 VS CJ Premier 17

Seriously, the difference between the 14 and the 17LS2 is not between a tubey and SS sound. I never found the 14 especially tubey and I owned it for 6 years. Not a bad linestage at all, though some of my more critical audiobuddies would beg to differ, but the 17LS2 is simply more open and dynamic with better bass and all-around more musical, however you define that. Part of the difference is the tube complement. Whatever you think of the 6922/6DJ8 family used in the 17LS and CT6, they're a darn sight better-sounding tubes than the 6GK5s used in the Premier 14. Dave

Told you Dopogue. Your conviction is awfully contaminating. Can't argue with you. From what I understand, from you and my buddies, Premier 14 is the last preamp of the old CJ sound. Long time adepts of this brand consider it as the last affordable (on the used market) bloomy, syrupy CJ preamp. For them,everything after that one became too detailed, focused, in brief too neutral and SS sounding.

I'm kind of stuck in the middle. My buddies have been of CJ for more than 20 years and they are the ones that introduced me to tube sound, their own tube sound. But it doesn't mean I am a pure CJ adept and I'm exploring. For the time beeing, I've discovered the VTL 5.5 is the closest thing to the old CJ sound with a little less roll off in the highs. It's dynamics and airness is probably close to a CT6 or 17 LS1. But how far is it from those, sonically considering the MSRP is lower than the CJ's. I know, mainly from your comments, that the 17LS2 is going to bring everything further. It is a classic and a long term investment but will it chase out my good buddies from my listening room ? HAHA that could be a break ! I know it is going to be more neutral, more neutral than the 17 LS1 but I don't know by how much.

The thing that confuses me is the fact you changed from your praised 17 LS2 to a Calypso. Now that one I've tried in my system and I got fatigued in 10 minutes. Much too detailed in the highs for me. I couldn't hear the richness of the midrange anymore, totally eclipsed by the incredible dynamics in the high and lower frequencies.I'd probably appreciated it more with some tube rolling or cable changes but still. If you tell me the 17 LS2 represents the rest area between a syrupy Premier 14 and a Calypso, well I know at least on which road I will keep rolling.

Thanks for all comments until now !

I would go for the cj 17lsII or step up to a 16lsII if your budget allows. No experience with VTL. I have a 16lsII running into a premier 350 but prior to the 350 I had a 2500A and it was a beautiful combination.

Okay, fair enough. I got the Calypso here on Audiogon at a price enabling me to flip it if -- compared side by side to the CL 17 LS2 -- it didn't sound as good. My sole reason for getting it was that I was sick and tired of switching speaker cables to effect polarity changes.

So imagine my surprise and delight when I found that I liked the Calypso, sonically, better than the CJ. It must be at least partially a system synergy thing, since I've heard none of the negatives you ascribe to the Calypso. Tube rolling did help -- I'm now using Mullard E88CCs and Tele smooth plate 12AX7s (two each) in the Calypso and these are the same Mullards that were in the CJ before I sold it. Two Calypso bonuses for me: Its paralleled XLR and RCA inputs/outputs have been a boon, especially with an Otari tape deck that sports only XLRs. And Jim White of Aesthetix has been both accessible and responsive, even on weekends when I had questions.

But if the Calypso is not an option for you, I can strongly recommend the CJ 17LS2. Sorry I can't help with the VTL comparisons. I did NOT consider the Premier 14 "syrupy," just not in the same sonic league as the 17LS2. Good luck, Dave

I have tried a Calypso also (two of my friends have them) and tube rolling (except the latest tubes Jim has sound great) is a requirement. Plus one of my friends had your CJ 2500A amp (with a transformer humm that CJ would fix saying they all do that...he sold it) as good as that amp is I bet the Calypso was showing you how digital you digital front end is....

What is your front end? As you start to get to these truely great preamps they also reveal all the flaws in a system instead of masking them in syrup.

Like you already found out system synergy is key, I had a huge ground humm that I couldn't cure with the Calypso in my system but it worked perfectly at my friends house or I would own it.. bargain component.

The LS16mkII is another great preamp if you need single ended only.