mo' better bass: any substitute for watts?

Bob_reynolds, we *do* have some control over that 'configuration' of voltage vs. current. It has to do with the output impedance of the amp.

A higher output impedance can deliver excellent bass if properly matched with the speaker; conversely an amplifier with very low output impedance will deliver poor bass if poorly matched with the speaker.

However it is more than just a conversation about equipment matching; there are two different paradigms that are in common use in high end audio:

http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html

IOW, getting bass out of the speaker is not a function of the amplifier **or** the speaker, it is a function of how well they work together. This comes about out of intention- for example, the ability to double power as impedance is halved is not the same thing as saying that the amp will play bass.

Furthermore, amps that are direct-coupled from input to output (and in a very non-intuitive way) are often at a disadvantage in playing bass as they have the ability to modulate their power supplies. As soon as they do this the bass dries up. This is due to the fact that the amplifier LF pole is lower than that of the power supply, when it should be the other way around (something that you can't do with direct-coupled amplifiers unless you use a battery).

"Bob_reynolds, we *do* have some control over that 'configuration' of voltage vs. current. It has to do with the output impedance of the amp."

The rest of the story !
Ya , that is the part that I was eluding to but missing in my feable attempt !
Thanks Atmaspere .

Still, Atmasphere is not saying that one can get more or better bass by simply having more watts, which was the original question. And certainly not, if the speaker can't do Bass!

Bob P.

Correct. In the old days, some amplifiers had a 'Damping' control, which was a potentiometer that allowed you to adjust current feedback (not voltage feedback). Essentially, this allowed you to get a better match between the amp and speaker.

This was at the time that the Voltage Paradigm was evolving. Once the ground rules were laid out, the 'Damping' controls disappeared- everybody just used a lot of feedback and called it good. The problem is that feedback itself functions at low frequencies (bass region) as a dynamic compression device. You simply aren't going to get good bass (or **as good** bass) if you are running a lot of feedback, even if your system is matched within the Voltage Paradigm.

This is why a smaller amplifier that has little or no feedback can often seem to play better bass (more impact, more definition, more articulation) than larger 'powerhouse' amplifiers that would seem to have it all over the said smaller amplifier. Of course, such an amplifier itself has to be able to operate properly with the speaker in order to revel these traits, but its not that hard to find speakers that are compatible and capable of delineating the differences between amplifiers that I defined above- the speaker *does not* have to be full range.

I find that class of operation plays a role too- class A amplifiers will have more authority; as you move more towards class B (AB1 and AB2) the authority (especially at low volume levels) goes away.

So- to play bass well, power output is irrelevant, instead the amplifier ideally is low or zero loop feedback and class A, given that such an amplifier also works well with the speaker being used. This of course assumes that the amplifier does not have a low frequency cutoff that interferes with bass reproduction.

Atmaspere ;
Do these characteristics ,

"the amplifier ideally is low or zero loop feedback and class A"

apply to all types of amplification ie. tubes , SS and digital ?
What gives tubes the "punch and body" at lower volumes ?