Wilson Sophia2s demand better than AYRE V5xe, so..

Jdolgin brings up a good point...

I'd also like to add that while my dealer set up the Sophias personally in my home, they ended up in a position I would never have guessed. Room is 15x15 with a vaulted ceiling from 10-15 feet and open to other areas of the house (ie. lots of area to pressurize and the potential of peaks and valleys)

They are much closer to the back wall (6" or so) with very little toe in (maybe 2" turned inward from straight ahead alignment). I had SF Cremonas before, and it took me months to dial them in - 3 feet off the front wall and nearly a straight-to-the-ears toe in.

I'm not saying the speakers are in a horrible spot, but the set up took about 30 minutes, and there was no complicated tape on the floor or "walk and talk" voicing Wilson Audio normally recommends. ???

Don't get me wrong, the speakers provide excellent separation of instruments and a somewhat focused image with okay depth. For example, listen to the opening of Breaking Silence from Janis Ian and on my system you'll hear her singing solidly in three different spaces, but I know this track and it could be better. Problem is, I can't tell if it's the speakers positioning or the electronics that are failing to give me the extra soundstaging abilities Wilson is known for. However, as mentioned above, I can hear the amp running out of juice and I'm missing certain qualities (bass, texture, etc.)...

Hce4,

I see that you are contemplating using the VTL MB-450s.
My friend used to use the VTL MB-450s with his Eidolon speakers, before he upgraded to the Lamm M2.2s. The VTLs are very musical amps, with great mid-range and a well extended treble. The bass response is very good too.

However, two things kept me from getting these amps when it was my time to upgrade.

One, was the heat. These amps run hot. (Even hotter than the Lamms run, which is my only gripe about the Lamms actually, as they run very warm.) In the summer, we used to have to open a window and run a fan with the VTLs running, whereas now, with the Lamms, we just have to open the window. (FYI, we live in California, where it is usually fairly warm all summer.) That is only a problem for 4 months or so out of the year though. (However, for a couple of months out of the year, it helps reduce the heating bill!)

Two, the bass response of the VTLs, while very good, (especially for a tube amp), was not in the same class as the Lamms. The Lamm bass response is quick, tight and deep. The VTLs did not go as deep, nor were they as quick and tight. Although for a tube amp, I must say they did quite a good job.

It might not be fair to compare the two amps, as the VTLs usually runs around $4,500 used, whereas the Lamm M2.1s (the M2.2s predessecor, which has the same bass response as the M2.1s) run about $7,000 used, which is about 50% more. (The M2.2 run closer to $12K used.) However, if you want the best bass response....

The reason I bring this up, is that one of your original points for upgrading was that you wanted "stronger bass output", and I did want to point out that while the VTLs have good bass output, it is not great bass output. As we had done a direct comparison between the two, I thought you might be interested.

My two cents worth.
Good Luck in your search.

10-24-08: Mtdking
Johnnyb53,

What preamp were they using with the Siegfrieds?

It was an all top-of-the-line VTL amplification chain, so I'm pretty sure the line stage was the TL-7.5 Series II Reference Line Preamplifier. Not sure what the phono stage was.

This was at the "Because the Music Matters" event hosted by Definitive Audio of Seattle. Mikey Fremer was a guest host for the event, and co-hosts and sponsors included David Wilson of Wilson Audio Specialties as well as founders and reps for VTL, Transparent, Classe, and others. The demo that so grabbed me was a joint effort put together by VTL, Wilson, and Transparent. Mikey was operating the SME turntable.

So anyway, in this particular room, the system had the best that Wilson, VTL, and Transparent had to offer in October 2006.

I think the preamp had to be the 7.5 series I since the series II hadn't come out yet in 2006.

Kurt_Tank,

Thanks for the input, being in CA too, I know the heat will be a bear to deal with!

Also, did you try the M1.1/M1.2? I'm wondering how the 100 watt version compared to the 200 watt version?

Thanks!