Cat JL2 with blown board. Advice needed

I suppose in some system that doesn't play below 100hz (I am thinking an actively biamped system where the CAT handles above 100hz) the CAT would be very nice. Even in a speaker that is relatively easy to drive, the CAT (with a damping factor of 10!) will not reproduce the lower octaves as the SL will. I sold my CAT to a guy that had exactly this setup (CAT driving 100hz and up). I am guessing he is enjoying it. I still would bet that even in that application, the SL would perform better (to most peoples taste)than the CAT. With the current crop of PLC and cables it is easy to push the SL waaaay over the neutral line to euphonic. As previously stated, I have loved and used tubes all my life and like you Bombay have a large collection of the best NOS tubes available. I rolled them all in the CAT JL2/Cat Ult MK2 combo. I disagree with you about a higher wattage tubed amp working well on his Andras. I almost went for a pair of VTL Wotan's
before Jay persuaded me to reconsider. The Andras and Avalons are looking for current not wattage. The VTL's would do the bass a bit better than the CAT (damping factor of 20 vs 10) but nothing like the SL (damping factor > 800!). I didn't realize things weren't wonderful until Jay graciously lugged his Kraft over for me. You never know something is wrong until something right points it out. I was lucky to run into Jay (he called asking about the ability of the CAT JL2 to drive his B&W 802's). I have thanked him for all the help he has given me over the last year or so. He is a great friend and very knowledgeable. I advised Defender1844 to repair or have the CAT repaired and sell it. The SL is perfect for his application. He also wants to use the amp to listen to his TV. His situation requires an amp that is RELIABLE.

Bart

Guys allot of good info. in this thread, when I spoke with Ken he also mentioned the same and had allot of respect for the Kraft line and said to me that if I was not going to use CAT product then it would be his choice. When I was speaking with him I actually owned Andra 2's paired up with Pass X600.5 monos. I was making some changes and actually bought MBL 101E's to replace my Avalon Isis speakers in my designated room but the Isis were not sold when my MBL's arrived and did not want to disturb the set-up. I decided to swap out the Andra's from my other set-up and break-in the MBL's, long story short the MBL's stayed in that spot. I wanted a amp to match up with them, hence purchasing a pair of JL3 Sig. MK2 mono's, during our conversations Ken did not speak highly of Pass, if you know Ken then you know how long I listened.

Reading the above info. now, if I would have only known all this back then that I would have to be a soldering pro etc. I would never have purchased them. Moving these arround so no to damage them or your self do to the weight and size for me is just too much. I had other issues too which meant they needed to go back to Ken and in the end I just got frustrated and decided to sell them.

I have never heard Kraft, when I look at pics and the little bit of info. regarding them I'll admit I'm a bit confused with; the finish and actual product line it's self.

First off the finish, I see on the site a pretty industrial pro looking finish, then I see some pics of a chrome look (which I like) and then a mat aluminum look. What is the finish.

Secondly, it's a solid state design correct, class "A"

Do the amps run warm, hot .....

The pre-amp is tube, solid state .....

Connections are they XLR or RCA and preference what is it.

My speakers are MBL 101E's, what would you recommend to be the ultimate fit, I need mono's due to my configuration and the space is fairly large. Prior to getting the CAT which is now sold and I'm looking for the right amp to end my amp quest I find my set-ups to be a tube pre-amp and solid state mono blocks.

Right now I'm learning more about Karan product and specifically the 1200's and look foward to hearing in my set-up in the near future.

Bart,
Well, I wanted to give Defender1844 a choice between tubes & s.s. I remain confident that the choices that I gave him for large wattage tube power amps will do the job. My confidence stems from the fact that I know of several fellow Apogee speaker owners who drive their speakers with tube power amps to very good effect. As you might know, Apogee speakers are very tough/demanding low-impedance loads but the 4 Ohm version speakers in the Apogee portfolio respond well to large wattage tube power amps.
Further, if you search A'gon you will see that Albert Porter is driving his Dali Megaline speakers with 2 pairs of VTL Ref 750 mono blocks to very good effect. The Dali Megalines are a hybrid ribbon-cone driver speaker that have every indication of being a tough load.
I believe that Defender1844's Andras would be served well by large wattage tube power amps.
Now, none of these large wattage tube power amps are cheap! That's for sure. Jay's advice to you was very good from the financial view-point - rather than spend a lot for the VTL mono that you were considering, he suggested that you buy a fine s.s. amp that could do the job for much less money. I believe that the VTL mono would have been very good as well; it's just that you would have been out of a lot more money!
In the end it depends on Defender1844's tastes - if he likes tubes & wants to stick to them, there are some large wattage tube amps out there that'll suffice. Looks like Defender1844 is a man of some means & these tube power amps could be within his reach.
If he would like to switch to s.s. both you & I have given him a very good choice.
I think that there are other very good ( & expensive) s.s. choices as well - Gryphon, Karan, FM Acoustics & Goldmund.
So, depends on his sonic preferences & how much he's willing to spend.

>> As previously stated, I have loved and used tubes all
>> my life and like you Bombay have a large collection of
>> the best NOS tubes available.
tube rolling with NOS tubes inside Ken's preamp is one mistake that I made - it never sounded as good with NOS tubes as it did with his factory-provided tubes. The NOS tubes, no matter how fine, were always to noisy, too fat in the bass, too rolled off in the treble, etc & I felt ruined the sound. It could be one reason why your Ultimate Mk2 never sounded as good as it should have?
I've been using Symphonic Line power amps since 2001 with my Signature Mk3 preamp. The bass has never been uncontrolled. I have never felt like complaining about the overall sonics.

FWIW. IMHO.

Dev,

The SL doesn't run hot (not in my application or Jay's). It currently is offered in matte aluminum and black (chrome aranya is discontinued). The pre
is offered in aranya only. They make a tubed and SS pre.
As expected the tubed pre does some things better than the SS and vice versa. The pre uses 6922's in the signal path and EZ80/6V4 in the PS (yes, tube selection in the PS has a big influence on the sound). The stock 6922's are Sovtek.
Surprisingly they don't sound bad in this pre. They have been dreadful in every other component I have heard them (including the CAT pre's and amps). They are quiet, cheap and reliable and that is why so many manufacturers use them. Somehow Rolf from SL has found a way to make them sound decent in his pre. I am not going to rehash a discussion with Bombay on the merits of tube rolling in the CAT pre and amp. I'll just say that if you are using the stock tubes in them, you aren't even close to realizing their potential. Most that have rolled in them agree with that statement. John Fox uses JL3's and runs the tubes I sent him to audition (after trying countless combos of very expensive NOS). The only things our systems had in common were CAT amps (and some cabling) yet the same tubes produced the best sound in both our systems.
I know you refuse to buy ultra expensive tubes but sometimes they are the best (there is a reason people spend that much for them). Again, I don't post much on these forums anymore because I don't have time to waste arguing. No matter how many times some reviewer says that XYZ tube amp "plumbs the depths of what is possible in bass reproduction" or similar nonsense, their BS will not rewrite the laws of physics. I suspect that your friends with Apogees, Dali's _____ fill in the blank difficult to drive speaker, will be as surprised as I was when they directly compare their tube amps to SL in their systems.
Everything is relative. They may currently think their tube amp is doing the bass just fine until direct comparison. The VTL's have double the damping factor (sorry numbers sometimes tell valuable stories) of the CAT
and especially in tetrode do the bass better than CAT. Again it is CURRENT that controls bass not WATTS. There is a reason that most tube amp manufacturers will not tell you what their amps damping factor is. I called and spoke with Luke Manley's wife when I was considering the Wotan's.
She refused to tell the damping factor which I later found online. If you do a Google search on damping factor you will find a wealth of information that explains it in understandable scientific terms. It the the bass that costs all the money to get right. Some people are fine without it and love their SET powered ultra sensitive speaker systems. But if the objective is full range done right, damping factor and physics can not be anecdotally explained away. The problem with having heard bass reproduced correctly is the realization that nothing else (the rest of the spectrum) is right without it. FWIW IMHO

Bart

Bart,
No one is trying to argue with you! Your inputs are well taken.
What I'm trying to convey here to Defender1844 (& anybody else reading this thread) is that they are NOT limited to only s.s. power amps for their application. Basically what you are saying is that the s.s. Kraft 250 is it & nothing else would work for Defender1844! I'm saying that Defender1844 has tube & s.s. power amp choices.
Hey, I'm a S-L user for longer than most people on this forum so I should be the one recommending nothing but S-L amps. That would be very limiting - very capable tube power choices exist as well.

Agree that tube rolling is very subjective - some like it a lot, other like it some & some do not like it at all. I just happen to fall in the 1st 2 categories.
With the CAT pre I happen to fall in the 2nd category - I liked it but with some qualifications.
With my Jolida 502A & Cary Sixpac tube amps, I out-right loved tube-rolling.
I've found tube rolling to be very gear dependent.
You feedback on tube rolling is well-taken.

>> Again it is CURRENT that controls bass not WATTS
You are right in a round-about way. Tt's impedance that control bass. Hig(er) current is a sign of a very robust power supply, which in turn can happen usually when the output impedance is very low.

Bart,
we are mostly saying the same thing the only difference is that you are limiting him to s.s. power amps & I am saying that he has both tube & s.s. power amp choices.
Anyway, I do not want to argue with you - I agree it's pointless.
The info is there in this thread - let Defender1844 read it & do whtever he want with it. Peace!