What's wrong? Nuforce/Capri no better than Sunfire

Your point regarding "knowing what to listen for" is an interesting one, and one that was brought up by a reviewer friend of mine. Perhaps I need that education, but what bothers me about that is, why do I need to "learn" to notice what I "should" be noticing? I can't help but wonder why it isn't more obvious. Do I really have to work THAT hard to "learn" the difference? Is there no gear that makes it obvious? I can't believe that all the posters here on agon had to learn how to hear. Just my opinion.
Jeffkad (Threads | Answers)

I've been following this thread, and it's morphed into something broader and of more interest (to me at least) then the original question, although it hinted at it. The above comment by the OP I 100% relate to, and Tvad's response I'm learning more and more is true. I'm fairly new to this hobby, and it frustrates me that differences are almost always MUCH subtler then one would reasonably expect them to be, esp with the amount of money things cost and the adjectives you read from reviewers. And judging from the OP's comment, and my own common sense, I'm not alone. I don't have any experienced audiophiles around me -- I'm braving this on my own and have the dwindling funds to prove it -- so how would I learn the 'art of listening'? Not to take away from this thread, but another question that has to be asked is, every audiophile was once a beginner with "green" ears -- once you realized that most differences between components was pretty small, what pressed you to continue on and not think that this hobby was just a bunch of hype? This is an honest question out of curiosity, please don't read into it or take offense (or become disrespectful) in your answer.

BTW, cheers to all of you experienced and apparently intelligent and wise posters. I learn something new from these forums every day. To that end, it's been very rewarding.

Tholt: The differences between great components and mediocre components are not subtle. If the difference is subtle, the component is not worth the money. There is something else that will provide a real difference (and probably for less money).

Don't buy in to the view that only a "wise, experienced audiophile" can hear the differences between components. Such words are spoken by people who have paid too much for gear that they don't even know is inferior. Many of the revered names in audio don't deserve the reputation they have.

If the difference is important and worth paying for, your wife or girlfriend will be able to hear it immediately. Using her as the reference point will save you a lot of money.

OTOH, deferring to the views of people on this board will usually cost you a lot of money, while providing you little or no benefit.

If the difference is not immediately clear, the component is not worth the money.

I have to agree with Jim. I really struggle with the concept of having to learn how to hear , and needing long periods of time to begin to hear subtle differences. Yes, some things like fatigue set in over time, but by and large, if the differences are so subtle that they are not "reasonably" readily apparent (a mild concession to time), then you have to question the value of that particular piece of equipment IN YOUR SYSTEM.

Although this will probably create more debate, let me clarify my point on learning to hear. This means, to me, trying to learn to hear beyond the obvious things that will stand out as an immediate change, ie, clarity, detail, accuracy of voice/timbre, pin point imaging, bass depth, overall fullness/leaness of sound. Then there are the more emotional aspects, like being "drawn into the music", or the "musicality" or the "toe tapping" experience. To Jim's point, I was looking for any of these things to jump out at me so I could decide which of these pieces made the music sound better TO ME, albeit with the expectation that the exceptionally well regarded, well reviewed, more costly, dedicated-to-2 channel pieces would clearly show improvement. That they haven't is surprising, and to be honest, disappointing. However, and Tvad and I are square on this now, it is not torture, and it has not discouraged me. I'm getting great sound now, and I'm going to continue to try to improve the sound quality, while enjoying what I have. I may be at a point where I can't hear improvements even if they are subjectively there. It could be my ears, my room, or my system synergy. The exploration will go on to try to determine this. I do believe that everyone is different, and some are just THAT much more sensitive to frequencies, to acoustics, to change, than others. And that sensitivity may have thresholds or plateaus beyond which they are no longer sensitive, or maybe even more sensitive. If you don't get frustrated, cajoled or bullied along the way, the process is actually fun, as long as the bottom line is consistent: THE MUSIC SOUNDS GOOD.