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Do all Class D amps lack soundstage depth?

Hello!
Recently I bought a class D amp for my friend from Audiogon - PS Audio Trio A-100. In general, I liked it sound very much. Compared to the power section of my much cheaper integrated amp (NAD C320BEE), Trio A-100 sounded fresher, more transparent, richer and juicier. NAD was obviously duller and more reserved. Trio A-100 seemed to energize the air with a sort of vibrancy, while NAD seemed more lifeless. (Of course, I am exaggerating the difference between the amps a bit to make it more clear how they differ from each other.) However, Trio A-100 lacked one parameter, which is very essential for me and without which I cannot truly get lost in the music – namely, the soundstage was flat. It wasn’t absolutely flat, no – but NAD did so much better in this department. When NAD was playing, I heard which instruments and singers were farther from me and which were closer to me. When Trio was playing, everything seemed to be on the same line, equidistant from me.

The previous owner of PS Audio Trio A-100 had told to me about its sound before I bought the amp from him, and he frankly admitted that the soundstage was kind of flat. Before this purchase, I nearly bought another Class D amp – namely, Bel Canto S300. Eventually, this amp went to another buyer, but the owner shared with me his impressions about this amp and, among other things, he wrote: “There might be less depth with some recordings”.

So, at least two owners of Class D amps confessed that their amps lacked soundstage depth.

I wonder – are all Class D amps like that? Is the lack of depth something which is intrinsically inherent in Class D?

My second question is – what if I buy TWO Class D amps and use them as monoblocks – will it solve the problem with the flatness of the soundstage?

Any advice based on personal experience will be much appreciated.
ironmine
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
He seems to be on another planet today. Direct questions don't phase him.

Dave
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
On his "System" description Muralman1 shows H2O Class-D monoblocks driving Apogee Scintillas. That system will certainly be revealing of any weakness in the front end.

Dave
ironmine OP
41 posts
 
Some guys commented that "the other components in your system affect the class D amps more then you would think" (Tan43) and that it "sounds like a speaker placement issue" (2chnlben).

I would like to emphasize that when me and my friend compared my NAD and his Trio A-100, we used the same room, same speakers, same cables, same preamp, same DAC, same songs, etc. We just changed the power amps - that’s all. So, it is hard for me to believe that I have an issue with speaker placement or other components.

I would think that Heavystarch is right – the culprit must be the same ICEpower 200ASC module used in both PS Audio Trio A-100 and Bel Canto S300.

What about PS Audio HCA-2? Does it use the same module as these two amps?

In general, I am looking for a class D amp, which I want to buy used at around $1000 and which can give to me a good feeling of depth in the soundstage. You know that feeling which you get when you close your eyes and the walls in your room simply disappear (especially the wall behind the speakers), because the sound comes at you from places which are much further then the wall behind the speakers. When I open my eyes again I am always surprised to see the wall only 3 m away from me – because, I swear that just one second ago I heard sounds which were coming at me from 10 or 15 meters away from me… I wonder if such kind of magic is attainable from class D amps within my budget...
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
My preamp, the class A Fire by the same builder as my amps, is of utmost importance in my system's success. With the power part taken care of, and the cabling simplified to an onlooker's idea of absurdity, I only needed to perfect my source. I spent only $1600 on an Audio Note DAC kit. After putting it together, I sent it to the builder of my amps and preamp. He supercharged that DAC. If you don't think an Audio Note can rock, they can, you just have to think outside their box.
br3098
994 posts
 
Ironmine, I think that we all understood what you were asking. My point was that I can't recommend a specific amp that will substantially alter your soundstage. As I said and in my opinion, that is speaker issue. If you had poor results with the Trio A-100, then possibly it is a poor match for your speakers (although the admission of the previous owner should have been a clue).

You will need to try some other amps to find one that you like. You haven't mentioned what speakers you are attemptng to drive, nor anything about placement or your room or... get my drift?

I like Channel Islands Audio's offerings for Class-D and other SS products. Dusty is a great guy, he has been around a long time, and his ideas about good sound mimic mine (somewhat). But I can't and won't guess if CIA D-100 or D-200 monoblocks will work well in your system. Order a set for evaluation and you tell us.
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