2. amps-preamps
  3. 1244870415

SET vs ICE vs GAINCLONE vs HYBRID vs other?

I'm looking for amp recommendations. Here's my situation:
I just gave up a nice JAS Array 2.1 int amp using 805's and 300B's. That amp was rated at 45W. I traded it in toward a Wyred 4 Sound ST-500. This amp is very nice.
I have no real complaints although I do notice the slight loss of intimacy and "wetness of sound" compared to the JAS and I feel the Wyred's top end to be slightly soft overall. Still, I'm quite satisfied with the sound and thrilled at not having the expense of tube replacement nor the insane amound of heat 805's put out.

The rest of my system unfolds like this: I run a Consonance Droplet directly into the amp (balanced) using Sunny Cables D1000X. The CDP and an a PS Audio P-600
get connected with Sunny Cables P600 power cords and the amp gets a 6Sons Audio Windigo. I have Porter Ports in the conditioner and the wall outlet. Speakers are custom-
jobbies similar to Legacy Focus using Eton drivers and I just had fellow Audiogonner M VanSloten upgrade the crossovers (thanks to another thread-good call!). I run Anti-cables directly into the speakers and connect them to the crossovers without binding posts. The soundstage is huge but very well focused and resolution is excellent.
Tone is colorful but not quite as rich as with the JAS.

So, my question to you ever-so-wise audio sages is how do I get the best of both amps without adding a preamp and not spending much more money than I can generate selling the Wyred ST-500? I absolutely need to maintain a high level of detail AND I must get excellent (almost) pinpoint imaging. I would also appreciate an extended top end but not too bright. My speakers are quite efficient. The 45W JAS almost was enough (efficiency in the mid 90db/1w).

I was considering gainclones such as the Patek or Audio Zone AMP1 or hybrids such as Pathos' Classic One MK II/III
or Valve Audio's Predator. I would greatly appreciate comments on the above listed amps especially if you can compare them to the Wyred amps. Thanks so much!
lcherepkai
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
It's low-fi muralboy.

Just like your system.

Get a life.
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
That is the whole point. The reviewer reported what I am hearing. What is pertinent is that the H2O was compared to the Wyred, and the latest Evo. The Fire preamp was compared to solid state and tube preamps. The folks interested in getting the best should read the review. It is enlightening.

6moons.com
mcgarick
277 posts
 
Now boys....
lcherepkai OP
280 posts
 
Doron,

I haven't posted on this in awhile but thought it worth updating for those interested. I sold the JAS because it was an absolute monster in size and put out a hellish amount of heat. I also had a hum issue with my main speakers which didn't materialize with other speakers I owned. I had both GE and RCA 805's, Sophia Meshplate 300B's, Ediswans 5358 and Amperex orange label/globe 6JD8's, and Tung Sol black glass 12au7 & Brimar 13D5 (12au7). I had no issues with sound aside from the hum.
Plus, of course, I'm an audiophile and absolutely MUST try other components, even when satisfied with the ones I own!

On to the Pathi....I mentioned a general satisfaction with a pair of bridged Pathos Classic MK III though not quite up to SET levels but close enough. Hogwash! The Pathi are quite nice-very good detail, nice, big holographic soundstage with very good focus, and a good overall musicality to them but they just aren't transparent enough.
After hearing a good 805/300B with a passive linestage, most amps sounds slightly to unequivacally opaque. Ditto for Pathi, unfortunately. Sold them and picked up a AudioSector Patek integrated on the cheap until I could do better. This is a very different sound from the Pathi but it looses nothing in terms of detail and presence though it isn't as up-front but it does get pretty close in transparency to the SET amp. It may well be the best affordable solid state option to SET lovers IF you have a system already balanced to the warm and full side. YMMV
doron
43 posts
 

Hi,

I agree with the weight and the heat statements - therefore this amps is placed in my basement (doubling as area heater..:-).
I have very mild hum on the left side transformer but it is not coming from the speaker. Just the transformer itself (mechanical hum) and very mild so I cannot hear from my listening seat when it is idling or playing music.
A signal hum could be fixed as sometimes it is just a capacitor relocation (when a regulating/heater capacitor is too close to the signal path). Been there. Fixed it.

The reason I asked is because my experience is that with the right tubes and with capacitors changes (trial and error) this unit can move from being a "magical midrange producer" to a SOTA, top to bottom performer beating, with matching speakers, to my ears, units costing many many times its asking price.
When you buy a unit from Pathos, VTL, ARC, Macintosh etc,etc you are afraid to touch these units since it will not allow you to sell them in a modified state.
Good sound takes second place to resale-ability.
With a relatively low initial cost, a modified JAS is a lower risk and the sonic results are more than just surprising. After almost 3 years with this amp and after hearing many very expensive amplifiers, utilizing different topologies (SET, Push-Pull, OTL’s, Z-OTL’s) not to mention expensive solid state units, I have yet to find an amp that is emotionally communicative as this one (the goosebumps test).
When you read some audio history, you find that there is nothing new under the sun as far as amplifiers circuits. Most were invented and optimized prior to 1954 and most of today’s gains were made with better passive parts.
The best Japanese renditions of SET technology (WAVAC, Kondo, Yamamoto, to name a few) have mostly to do with better transformers, capacitors, signal wires, etc, etc.
In other words the dish becomes better when the chef uses the same old recipes but uses better ingredients.
Most commercial audio units (not just amps) cannot use the best tubes, capacitors, inductors, transformers due to cost/effectiveness and scarceness of supply, unless time and money are no object (custom built amplifiers from a designer) so they leave it to us, if we dare to experiment.

Just my two cents,

Doron
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