Need Zu Definition Pro Subwoofer Array Amp for $1k

Well a few things… I owned the Crowns, and the Odysseys on this setup.. Forget the Odyssey, it is a very bad match, the high damping of the amp does not mate well with low exersion, high damped pro audio drivers at all. The crown is not half bad, good mix because you have to remember something "Impedance" is the killer matching your PRO Rane EQ to an amplifier, not only the impedance match but the fact do you really want to convert over from Balanced operation with the XLR to an RCA adaptor? Not recommended in my experience with these kinds of active setups. Also by the way the Odyssey is NOT a true balanced input on those amps, its just single ended with a ground jumper to the #1 and #3 pin, which are also wired OUT OF phase to the U.S. XLR balanced gear, so you would have to actually go into the amp and re-solder them to match the phase of the Ranes XLR.

Anyway forget all that because your not going that route anyway. I could Highly suggest the Mccormack DNA series for a good price, however I have not specifically heard it in this application, and once again you will lose the GAIN of at least 6 db due to they are not balanced power XLR, this also can increase distortion, and the IMPEDANCE of the Rane matching possibly… I think the DNA 1 is also a problem with its only 10k input impedance. Also that is the other issue of the Odyssey amps, they are VERY low impedance at like 10k ohms… that’s excessively low for a lot of preamps or processors to drive depending especially for low frequency alone, I learned that the hard way! Get an amp with 20k ohm or better input and true XLR balanced operation in my opinion… That’s why the crown in the end made most sense for the money, they are about 40 k XLR impedance, and have plenty of power, run quiet, and are very Rugged for this duty.

In the end however Zu's very own new Plate amps in the Zu DEF II's which of course now cost much more were the ultimate solution that beat all the PRO setups I went thru. Not that it was just the amps, but the full package setup has changed significantly including enclosure materials, split tunning internally etc… Eliminating all the issues with the pros.

So I hate to say it, but go to parts express and buy 2 of the better Subwoofer plate amps for 100 or 200 each, run them as mono blocks in their own wood enclosures if you wish, and you can even run them without the Rane unit for far less complications and use the EQ controls right on them.

Also these plates have way more than enough power, MAYBE Zu will sell you a pair of their new Hypex amps they use in the presence model currently with a standard input to run your Rane to them for control. But if you want pure pro capabilities its gonna take some serious work to get the Rane tuned in correctly and a good matching amp.
Good Luck

P.S. Don't just buy any old PRO audio amp either, get the CROWN K1 Or K2 as mentioned, they run cooler, and Have NO FAN! You will kick yourself buying a cheaper 200 dollar pro amp with a loud fan running all the time in it. Or try one from a local Guitar center at first at least and see what you think.
Finally I also believe running the Pro's with a crossover on the Rane at the 100 to 120 hz is better due to the mid bass much stronger even though its a large overlap to the front drivers... Only way to get the lower 40 hz to 80 hz sounding as good is a lot of room treatments, or the Split tunned Zu Def II models.

By the way if you do go with a better quality Audiophile style Single ended/RCA amp, I MIGHT have the custom XLR with Locking RCA's on them still I could send you for cheap. They are only about 2 feet long I think though, maybe they are 1 meter.. Also I had a pair made by Zu as well, but they are not there. All a XLR/RCA cable are is the center pin "Red, Hot" on the RCA goes to the #2 pin on the XLR, and the #3 and #1 pins on the XLR Are simply combined as one ground, which is just the single ground wire off your RCA jack.

Undertow,

Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much.

You gave me a lot of EXCELLENT suggestions. If these were your speakers (I just bought them used and I really like them so I'm keeping them), what would you suggest in order? I can buy the Crown K2 on ebay, or the plate amps from parts express for less than buying one of the amps I listed. BTW, SHAME ON ME for dismissing the Crown. I should have been more open minded even though the Crown is a PRO amp. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

You mentioned ordering "better" plate amps from parts express. Which would you suggest?

Thanks again! This is why I love Agon and I'll pay money to sell my equipment here! The amount of experience on this forum never stops amazing me!!!!

Regards,
Mark

Aceboympk,
Its a tuff one... If you were to get the plate amps from parts express I suggest the ones that I believe have the parametric eq right on them. Its just like a 5 band or something which is really all you need and simplifies much more vs. the Rane.. Also you could recover the cost if that works out just selling the Rane on Ebay for 400 or whatever and you are even! You would be shocked even on this line array of woofers that 100 watts or 400 watts is really not a huge difference. The quality bass and blending I found was simply running the right setup vs. worrying about power or "what the optimal EQ setting is" because these speakers will react well with less finicky integration and "Lost bass nodes" if you simply run them as if they were one integrated speaker, thats why I suggest as many have go ahead and not be afraid to run these up in the 100 hz plus range, these are not Subwoofers in a conventional sense like Movies are rated for THX etc... To run 80 hz and below. Yes Zu for years have even themselves suggested running them at 40 hz which is where they designed the fronts to cut off, but believe me the Re-enforcement of the backs running you more full range giving you the "Punch" up above 80 and 100 hz definitely will most likely serve most recordings much better.

Again you have some decisions to make as to how easy or complicated you want to make this. Also how much really to spend. I can tell you whether you run a 100 dollar plate amp or a 1000 dollar combo pro rig you can end up with better than expected results depending on the room. Only issue is the plates and making sure they can be mounted and kept cool, if they are A-B type, which A-B vs. the Class D amps do sometimes sound much more robust and natural fill type bass. I mean I would for now see if you want to go with the Rane or not.

Is your Preamp XLR true balanced? If not than you might want to go the Plate amp route and eliminate converting back and fourth. If it is True balanced, well than you can keep it clean and make it all Rack gear using the Rane on top of a good XLR pro amp, it does not have to be a crown, as a matter of fact the QSC amps are a little cheaper and probably even better for the application with 300 to 600 watt ranges, but be careful there are many models and some can come with pretty loud fans, although most are 2 speed models that will not be noticed most of the time at low setting, and the Zu's really are efficient so they won't draw them that much. However again efficiency is a real trick here, has nothing to do with how overdriven an amp can get from driving an in-efficient load or even the impedance on these speakers which stays pretty stable at basically 8 ohms, probably dipping down in the 4 or 5 ohm range, but simply low frequencys will sweat an amp much more.

Best amp possible, My opinion although I would never spend this much even used on this application, would be a Mcintosh like 352 or 300... One that is true balanced, and they have relatively low damping factors around 100 - 200. They would really sound organic, but you would end up dropping 2000 to 3000 on an amp and not worth it in this application, so find something comprable otherwise. There are many used XLR amps around, but in the Audio realm over here vs. PRO you have to be careful they are really XLR balanced, not just a dummy jack that is XLR on the back, and that they are a higher input impedance, like I said I would stay with amp inputs of 20k ohms(20,000) or higher. Don't worry about wattage, but worry about quality and current drive, a 50 watt Class A amp would probably drive these better than a Cheap 500 watt Class D, but your talking more money.

If you really want to try a killer amp, the Monarchy Mono blocks are really sweet class A amps, true balanced, No feedback, will Crush those 10" drivers, but maybe just for plenty of Dynamic peak power you would want their like 100 watt per channel plus versions. They are also 100,000 ohm inputs, can be driven passivley with no preamp. So I think they would be excellent. Used you can get a pair around 1000 bucks, even monarchy might be running deals right now, but they do run very hot as they are 100% class A power, but would have an iron grip and sound like pure finess on these. I own a pair of the SM 70's which are sweeter but only 70 watts, they would work fine too, but driven off a Rane really putting them to the test with all super low frequencies I don't know the results. Oh and my monarchys in true balanced XLR easily beat the bass levels out vs. my Old Crown K1.. But totally different setup and applications. Remember my claims are only on very high efficiency and well impedance matched systems..No doubt 400 watt crowns in some speaker applications will be a better bet and run cooler.

This looks like a really short sweet solution!

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=688

SC-1250 Subwoofer Amplifier $995.00

DESCRIPTION
The Velodyne SC-1250 amplifier is a combination high-quality 1250W Class D amplifier, with built-in DSP room correction. Velodyne developed this amplifier for their home theater installer based network and their Contract Series subwoofers.
The amplifier section is more powerful than the 1250W rating would indicate. It is capable of significantly more power under transient conditions and it tends to be a fair amount more powerful than most 1000W plate amplifiers. The difference is noticeable with most of our high-output Exodus Subwoofers, giving additional headroom before the onset of clipping.

The DSP room measurement tool is the real kicker. While not as flexible as the SMS-1 solution, it does allow for an Auto-EQ room measurement & equalization. This is the perfect solution for someone who wants a high quality amp, and a no-nonsense set-up routine for any passive subwoofer.



SPECIFICATIONS
High quality 1250W, 3000W burst amplifier.
High Pass 80Hz (6dB/octave) crossover for main speakers to help reduce distortion.
Low Pass Crossover 30-160Hz, 24dB/octave defeatable.
Inputs: Line and Speaker Level
Outputs: Two subwoofers (limited to 4 Ohm nominal load total), one line-level with 80Hz high pass filter.
Phase: 0°, 90°, 180°, 270°
Dimensions: 4 ¼" x 17.0" x 13.0"

Undertow,

Thank you so much again. I know that reading "thank you" messages may mean little, but I am VERY thankful for the time you put into answering my questions so clearly and thoroughly. Thank you!

My preamp (Canary CA-903) only has RCA outputs, which is the main reason I am shying away from using the Rane which only accepts XLR inputs.

I think the Velodyne SC-1250 is the right solution for me. I don't have any software to "dial in" the correct bass levels. The Velodyne SC-1250 includes a microphone to help me do the set up for my room which is ideal. In addition, the SC-1250 has RCA connections so I don't need a pair of RCA to XLR IC's which will help keep the costs down. BTW, the SC-1250 comes with a remote control which is a huge plus. Vanns is selling the Velodyne SC-1250 for $999 and they're including a pair of 8" Velodyne SC-8 subwoofers and shipping is free. I need one of these in our bedroom and I'm sure I can put the other to use somewhere :-)

The only concern I have is whether or not the Velodyne SC-1250 will support the signal down to 16hz which is the floor for the Zu woofers. Will it?

If so, I'll pick up this unit because it seems like the overall best solution. I know Velodyne makes very reputable subwoofers, so I expect the amp to sound really good.

Unless of course you have any other suggestions that are better than the Velodyne SC-1250. :-)

Thanks again,
Mark