volume vs presence

I think I am going to wait and save up for my next system which will match the new listening room I will be looking for when I purchase/rent my next house.

Going along with Jax's post, I have just been doing a lot of reading up on acoustics and rooms for listening, and it seems that its the most important thing before you start buying components. I read that spending money on getting your room acoustically set up yields far greater results than focusing on gear alone. And when you have the room set up right, the components are able to realise their full listening potential. Which makes sense, because my system have sounded different in the couple of houses I have used them in.

I am reluctant for obvious reasons to go out and spend huge amounts of money on cables. I can't really see for the value for money in exotic cables sorry. Can you really hear that much difference for the money spent?

Hey Rich, I was thinking about what I was missing, and its the intial attack of the front, upwards curve of the sound. I can hear the guitar being played, but I want to feel the pluck on the string before the note sounds. The twang and percussive effect of the double bass player digging into a string.

Just want to thank everyone for their detailed responses too.

Shadorne, thanks for the link. I am required to have my hearing tested yearly where I'm employed, but the results given are not very informative. The results of this test really shows where the losses are. My loss started right at 500hz, with a gradual increase up to -12dB at 30 hz. What suprised me the most was how it stayed level when I increased the frequencies until I got to 6khz, which only went up one level, then again at 12khz one level. But at 16khz, I had to jump up to -6dB. !!! Great test!

What you describe sounds normal - you hear best (most sensitively) around 500 Hz upwards and you hear least sensitively in the bass. This is a normal "loudness contour" of hearing sensitivity.

Jaffa: Did you set your SPL meter to "fast?" If so, the music you listen to is not that dynamic. 85 dB average is loud, but not BLARING. It shouldn't be causing ringing in your ears unless you're listening for hours at a time. Very dynamic music could have peaks going well into the 90s at listening position while averaging 80 dB or less.

Presence, dynamics and transients are all different, but somewhat related.

-Presence is the impression of how close or far something sounds. Closer microphoning will sound more present and have stronger transients.

-Dynamics are the the range of loud to soft.

-Transients are the very short spikes on the attack. These can be very, very loud, but so short that we don't hear them as LOUD. They give us the impact of live music. Even on the "fast" setting those $50 SPL meters can't respond fast enough to show how loud they really are.

Jaffa_777

>>I am reluctant for obvious reasons to go out and spend huge amounts of money on cables. I can't really see for the value for money in exotic cables sorry. Can you really hear that much difference for the money spent?>>

In my system? Easily. In my receiver driven mini HT bedroom system? Sure.

I'm with the poster who says Presence = They are here, you are there. I'd say there is more to it than just realizing info in the 2-6K freq range. Most any speaker out there can reproduce freqs from 2-6K.

My idea on presence or immediacy, or even palpable, equates more to the resolution and detail therein, rather than to be as simplistic as I read above and merely stating some portion of the range allows for it.

Maybe too, you meant to use some other word instead. I don't know.

Feeling the music comes from pressure. Pressure and resolution. Personally, I've never felt a pick come off a string, nor would i WANT TO. i CAN HEAR IT THOUGH AND THAT'S PART OF MY ARGUMENT FOR DEFINITION AND DETAIL being more important than merely reproducing part of the bandwidth. It's more HOW that part is rendered.

I feel you do not have sufficient enough detail and delineation presently in your system.... SPL aside.

Loud doesn't equate to presence.

I've heard systems which while at quite modest listening levels produced that "Can I have your autograph?" illusion. Trust me on that. No kidding.

Maybe somewhere out there is a system that uses zip wire for speaker cables, Radio Shack interconnects, and OEM power cables which can provide the aforementioned 3D illusion, but I doubt it seriously.

If you take some time to look through the various posted systems here, you should also note the cabling, conditioning, and room treatments. I think you'll see what I mean.

Exotic to me means super expensive. Like $2K & up for a pair of ICs, or a power cord... not 300 - 700 dollars. 'Course, even 300 can be hard to swallow if you haven't tried out anything like it before... so you wouldn't know... and you apparently don't. I do. I didn't at one point, but I did, and NOW I do know their impact and I know their importance.

System performance is the whole, global, effect it produces. AS it takes more for a race car to go fast than simply a great engine, so too does a stereo system need all it's areas addressed to be a great performer.

So, if you want to feel the music, go for loud... if you want to gain the illusion you are there or they are in your room, it's only going to happen when your rig is quite resolute, defined, and capable of capturing all the audio cues in the recording... and as well, the recording itself will play a big part.

Smooth, ain't gonna do it. Been there. Done that.

The key, if there even is one, is too much of a good thing is indeed, too much. Too much articulation in a rig can come off as sterile or analytical, and quickly fatiguing. Briefly though it can be stunning. Finding that line in between those two results is the ticket and accounts alone for how eleusive it can be to achieve.

I don't mean to sound condescending but keeping close to a budget, or constrained by one will prevent many from attaining more than just good to great sounding systems. I know this all too well. It's taken me 3 rigs, and nearly 7 years to get where I'm at today... for someone else, it would take the time to write the check.

It will always come to this: Just how much do you want how much? Affordability only means more or less time needed, to do it. I get the notion you want it, so if you keep an open mind as to the whole of the affair here, you'll be well served. If not, it will be a more arduous and lengthy journey.

Everything matters... not just the stuff we can plug into the wall. hell, even the walls matter.

Check out the Cable Company and try renting some of the stuff from them... it will be an ear opening event... I guarantee!

Blindjim, thanks for your open, detailed and frank response. No I don't have the check book handy, nor the credit card. My ears want the best but my wallet will take years to afford it. As you said, fate has bitten me and it looks like I am heading down this path. I am a music lover first, a musician second, and a stereophile last. Its not about the gear for me, its just the music.

Its good to talk to people who have been their too. So how far does the rabbit hole go? Thats the feeling I am getting!