Double down, good or bad?


I came across this article on Atma Sphere's website:

http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/myth.html

In short, Atma Sphere believes having a power amp that is capable of doubling its power when impedance is half is not necessarily a good thing because speakers in general do not have a flat impedance across all freq range.

On paper, it does make sense. Though I am sure speaker designers take that into consideration and reduce/increase output where necessary to achieve the flatest freq response, that explains why most of the speakers measured by Stereophile or other magazines have near flat responses.

But what if designer use tube amps to design his speakers, mating them with solid state should yield higher bass output in general? Vice versa, tube amps yield less bass output at home?

I have always been a tube guy and learned to live with less bass weight/impact in exchange of better midrange/top end. Will one be better off buying the same exact amp the speakers were "voiced" with, not that it will guarantee good sound, at least not to everyone's ear.
semi
Unsound, I've heard a set of our MA-1s driving the old Full Ranges, which were one ohm (we used a set of autoformers that had one ohm taps). There is an old TAS review which mentions that from the early 90s as the speakers were owned by a TAS reveiwer.

Seems to me Paul Bolin used Duetta Signatures.
Best Thanksgiving and holiday wishes to all . . .
I am not discussing clipping at all, nor do I see clipping power as interchangeable with output impedance- no idea where you got that.
Atmasphere, here's where I got that . . . quoting from your "white paper" that started this whole thread:
Let's say you have a high quality 150/channel transistor amp. 150 watts into 8 ohms, a reasonable amount of power, but if you have a four Ohm speaker its 300 watts. Nice. Into 2 Ohms, if the amp doesn't blow up or current limit, 600 watts. So what does the amp produce driving 16 Ohms? 75 watts. Into 32 Ohms its only 35 watts! . . .

. . . This is what the right OTL can do into these impedances: 150 watts into 8 ohms, 145 into four (less than 1/2db difference), about 80 watts into 2 ohms, but into 16 we have 149 watts, into 32 ohms 145 watts . . .
Are you not, in all the wattages above, referring to the maximum power available, BEFORE CLIPPING, into various resistive load impedances? If not, to what are you referring? And from these specifications, you conclude:
Thus there is no way that a transistor amp can be described as linear if it is subject to these problems and that is one of the reasons why transistor amps produce so many amusical colorations. The reason has to do with the vanishingly small output impedance of the transistor amp
In your Power Paradigm "white paper", the same conclusions are made:
Let's say you have a high quality 150/channel transistor amp. 150 watts into 8 ohms, a reasonable amount of power, but if you have a four Ohm speaker its 300 watts. Nice. Into 2 Ohms, if the amp doesn't blow up or current limit, 600 watts. So what does the amp produce driving 16 Ohms? 75 watts. Into 32 Ohms its only 35 watts! This could result in serious problems were the speaker a typical electrostatic, where such impedances are common in the bass frequencies. This explains why transistor amplifiers are usually such a poor match for electrostatic speakers.
No, these power ratings say absolutely NOTHING as to why an amplifier may be a good or a poor match for an electrostatic speaker. Or do you mean output impedance here as well?
Can you not see that you use the concepts of maximum clipping power and output impedance interchangibly, or you feel that one is an accurate indication of the other?
Kirkus, its clear to me that your perspective is that of the Voltage Paradigm
Actually, I don't feel personally polarized on any of these issues . . . I find it far more interesting to try to work to understand the actual correlations between circuit design, measured performance, and perceived quality of sound reproduction. And to this end, it seems obvious to me that factors such as output impedance, maximum power vs. load impedance, type of feedback employed, and circuit topology are best considered and analyzed individually, rather than as a group or belief system.
Ralph & Kirk,

I think that the confusion (or lack thereof) between power at the clipping point and output impedance comes down to what I said in my post dated 11/24. It is important to clearly maintain a distinction, in discussions such as we have in this thread, between doubling down of an amplifier's RATED power output into 4 ohms vs. 8 ohms (which is what this thread was originally about, and which amplifiers having very low output impedance may or may not be able to do), and the fact that ANY amplifier having very low output impedance WILL deliver double the power into a 4 ohm speaker impedance vs. an 8 ohm speaker impedance, provided that it is not driven to the point where its output is limited by clipping or other factors.

Best regards,
-- Al
Ralph, sorry but to my mind that's cheating. Were the tube amps driving auto-transformers or Apogees?
Unsound, thanks for the link to the Threshold Stasis article. From the description given, there are two main differences between the Stasis circuit and a conventional solid-state amplifier.

First the output stage -- a standard bipolar emitter-follower output section can be thought of as using 100% local voltage feedback, purely a function of the transistors' exponential Vbe/Ic characteristic, which delivers very good linearity and low output impedance (even before global feedback) as a result of the bipolar transistor's high transconductance. It seems that the Stasis circuit instead uses local current feedback to effectively bootstrap the output transistors to the voltage amp, and its linearity and output impedance will be a result from the particulars of the "current sensing" circuit employed (which I assume to be quite effective).

The other main difference isn't so much a Stasis thing, but it's the fact they use FET transconductance voltage amps, rather than a bipolar transresistance voltage amp. This means there's a fraction of the raw open-loop gain available. According to the text, there's no overall feedback, so I'm not quite sure about the hows and whys of the differential input stage, but suffice it to say that a low-gain FET voltage amp is a symbiotic choice when paired with a low- or zero-global-feedback design.

But in terms of clipping, I think the overall output impedance is pretty low, so it should still behave very similarly to a conventional amplifier as far as "doubling-down" is concerned.