2. amps-preamps
  3. 1261957803

Go with a tube preamp or not?

Hello everyone, I am interested in purchasing a tube preamp for my system. I am considering replacing the Classe CP 60 I am currently using and am looking for recommendations. The rest of my system is a Denon 3910 with Upgrade Company signature mods, a pair of Aragon Palladium 2 monos also upgraded by Upgrade Company, a pair of Intuitive Design Summits with Path stands and a total of 6 Stillpoints per side. I use a Velodyne DD12 to augment the low end. Cabling is mostly Ridge Street Audio with one pair of Jungson Golden Dragons used between the pre and power amps. the room is about 13.5 by 17.5 with 8 foot ceilings. I listen to a wide range of music including pop, classic rock, heavy metal, contemporary jazz, blues, and funk. Normal listening volume is 80 to 85 db's but occasionally will listen in the range of 90 to 95 db's if the mood strikes me.

I recently got to hear another member's system that has the Summits and uses a very nice tube preamp. I would like to see if I could get some of that tube sound in my system. I am not looking to drastically change the sound of my system, rather just add a touch of warmth. I have no experience with tube gear, so I am looking for help. I have looked at past threads, but am not finding specific enough info.

There are a couple of requirements that I am looking for and a couple of others that would be nice but are not mandatory. First, I want the unit to be remote controlled. It needs to have both balanced and single ended outputs that are active at all times. (My amps are balanced and I am not looking to change them at this time. The amps also have a 44 kohm input impedance.) Home theater pass thru would be nice, but is not mandatory. Same thing for phono capabilities. I am looking in the $1500 range used but could go as high as $2k if the right deal came along. I am not going above the 2k mark. I would need to sell the Classe pre first.

I have looked a little, and offerings from BAT, Audio Research and Conrad Johnson have all gotten my interest. I am sure there are plenty of others that I haven't mentioned. What I don't want to lose that the Classe does well is pacing and dynamic contrast. Any input is appreciated.
csmgolf
ontjesr
157 posts
 
Hi John - long time since we last spoke. My point to CSMGOLF was regardess what preamp(s) he considered, at least make the attempt to have in-home demo as synergy in itself has alot to do with the final results.

Best to you & you provided CSMGOLF with some excellent suggestions inwhich to focus his attention.

Bob
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Hi Bob- yes it has been quite a while. I hope you and yours are enjoying a great holiday season, and let me wish you a happy and healthy new year.

I fully agree with your main point, there is no substitute for listening with your own ears, to your own system, in your own room, and preamps are probably the most difficult item to choose due to so many variables. The way I did this was what I refer to as the AudiogoN buy n' try method (patent pending). I'd buy a VAC Renaissance mk II preamp while I still had a CJ Premier LS16 mk II and a Krell KRC-HR on hand. Swap them in and out for a couple of weeks, and sell the 'loser' on AudiogoN and try another preamp. At one point I tried 8 preamps in a 9 month timeframe.

Pros: I got the preamp that worked best with my system to my tastes (ARC Ref 3).

You can listen to others reco's as much as you want, but their system/room may be warmer or leaner than yours, and their musical tastes may vary too.....which makes this a crapshoot.

Cons: Yes, it does tie up more money for a while, as you will constantly have 2 or more preamps in your room for a period of time.

Buying used certainly helps ease this pain a bit, and I found out, 9 months later, that I had the preamp I wanted, and only lost about $175 over the 9 month period trying 8 different preamps in my system (including ads and shipping). I felt that investing $175 to try all of these great preamps in my system head on with their competitors was money well spent. I wasted too many years listening to others opinions (reviewers, on-line, friends, etc.) I know they meant well, but they don't have my ears, room, equipment and cables, so they can't really tell me what I will like best.

Cheers,
John

BTW, one more to add to your list would also be the VTL TL-5.5. Unbalanced and balanced outputs, remote, processor loop for home theater, and optional internal phono stage.
brauser
525 posts
 
I have used Audio Research tube preamps for years with great results. Recently went with a Jeff Rowland Capri and was amazed that it stood it's ground and in some ways exceeded previous performance levels. As a aside, DON'T USE ANY DAKIOM PRODUCTS with ARC or Jeff Rowland. They sound bad and induce hums and buzzes which are completely uncontrollable. Plus the warranty is a joke. Good luck!
csmgolf OP
887 posts
 
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions so far. What should I be looking for in a preamp output impedance to get a proper match with my amps? If I am experincing a mismatch, what would the sonic results be? John, thanks for all of the info. Ideally, yours would be the best way to shop for a different pre, but freeing up enough funds to do it could be another matter. I used a pretty similar method to arrive at my choice of speakers and could not be happier, however, finances have changed. If anyone else has other preamp options, please let me know. Thanks, Cris.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Cris, the general rule of thumb is that the amps input impedence should be at least 10X's the preamps output impedence. The greater the better (ie: 20X's is better than 10X's). Your amp's input impedence is 44K, which is pretty good. Most tube preamps have a output impedence of 1K or lower, so you should be at least 44X's.

You shouldn't have a mismatch problem, but if you had a power amp with a 10K input impedence, a preamp with a output impedence of 1.2K may sound a bit soft in the bass and/or rolled of in the high's. Happy hunting.

Cheers,
John
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