2. amps-preamps
  3. 1268008775

How much better will a preamp be over a processor

I've had a dedicated theater room for over four years now, and have enjoyed it very much. Over the last couple of years I have changed the equipment around quite a bit for many reasons, but the main one has always been to improve upon the sound for two channel listening.

The first piece I upgraded was the amplifiers. I went from a five channel (Anthem P5) to a pair of Theta Citadel 1.5's. I kept the Theta's for about a year and sold them to move on to a BAT VK-600SE in November 2008. I went with the BAT based on the strong recommendation of a fellow enthusiast, and have to say I've liked it much better over the Theta's.

Last April I had the opportunity to buy a pair of Aerial 20T v2's. I couldn't pass these up at the price and traded my Aerial LR5's in on them to help with the cost. These have been the single biggest upgrade I've experienced in my system as far as the over all sound goes.

This brings me to my question. I am currently using a Denon AVP-A1HDCI processor for all the processing and preamp duties. My plan from the beginning was to get a dedicated two channel preamp to go along with the Denon or whatever processor I would be running. Like many others the poor economy has caught up to me and buying something like a good two channel preamp is now a bigger deal than what it was two years ago. My plan was to be patient and buy a used unit here from Audiogon and try it, if I didn't like it resell it and take a small hit from what I payed and move on to the next one to try. Now this doesn't seem to be a smart thing to do (Maybe it wasn't before either?), so I'm hear asking for your guys input.

My initial plans where to get a BAT VK-52SE to run along with the Denon processor, but I've done a lot of reading over the last year or so and there seems to be a lot of options. I'm also interested in products from Ayre, Classe, Anthem, and ARC. I am prepared to sell the Denon and the BAT amp and start over, but it would be nice to just keep one or both and make something work. I still have the BAT VK-52SE or BAT VK-42SE at the top of my list, and really consider these to be the front runners for me, however I've talked to a few people who have gotten the Classe SSP-800 and rave about it. One person I spoke with even got rid of there ARC ref 3 after getting the Classe. He told me the Classe didn't have everything the ARC ref 3 did, but it was close enough not to worry about. This is how I feel as well, if I'm going to spend this kind of money I want a significant improvement not a small one.

I know there are a lot of variables in all of this and I'm sure there will be many opinions. I'm sure the first thing I will be told is to go listen to the products I'm interested in, and that is best thing to do, but I live out in a rural area, with most dealers being two to three hours away. I work six days a week now and Sundays is for the kids. I also don't want to go and take up a dealers time only to come home and buy something used from Audiogon. I just don't think that is right, besides what sounds good at the dealer might sound horrible when you get it home.

I basically have two questions for you.

What type of improvements should I expect by going to a dedicated two channel preamp over my current Denon processor.

Can a higher end Processor like the Denon, Anthem, or Classe provide a two channel experience comparable to a dedicated two channel preamp.

Thanks for your guys input.
audiodreamer
blindjim
3,092 posts
 

>>What type of improvements should I expect by going to a dedicated two channel preamp over my current Denon processor.<<

Hmmm. That’s a bit vague man, so I’d say for sure, Different? …and in that difference one will say better worse, or simply different.

Perhaps a better Q could be posed if some more info were mentioned. Price range of preamp & Designs of the short list of pres….

Better still might be just what or where do you wish to wind up regarding the overall sound? Fatter? Richer? Fuller? Faster? More bottom end? Greater extension? SS? Tubes?

>>Can a higher end Processor like the Denon, Anthem, or Classe provide a two channel experience comparable to a dedicated two channel preamp. <<

Maybe. Though I’d suspect not. Not against a dedicated analog preamp, but the price of it too means something. Again, we’re stuck in the proverbial “subjective accounts’ loop, here and in need of further info.

For me, I’ve found a very good preamp is very very, important! IF one will be running more than a single source for sure, but mostly because of the influence of the more upscale dedicated preamp on the music.

The preamp’s voicing of the end product is unmistakeable if it’s truly a great preamp. This change of the systems voice too will depend on your own parameters and preffs for what allures you when in 2 ch mode, and of course the preamp you select to gain such ends.

Easiest way IMHO to add one to an existing HT array is finding one with HT Bypass functinos. ALSO I’d say keeping as close to neutrality and as quick a one too are needed attributes for film and TV.

Many of the latest line stage preamps even tubed ones sound more and more like SS preamps to me today…. And there’s the rub for myself. In stereo mode I’m usually reeled into the listening event by a far different presentation than what most SS preamps or processors will yield.

There was a review of a couple of mid to uppoer end receivers posted online and one of them was a Parasound, the other I think was a Marantz.

Their preamps were compared to two or three other line stages of varying prices. $2K $4.5K & $ a lot more… a whole lot more!

The final points were that of all five of the preamps under fire, two HT rec’s, and 3 preamps, active and passive of less and well more expense…. That none were bad at all, and in some instances the HT units were on par with each of the other 3 dedicated preamps… to some degree.

So all were different, and subjectively as good or better here and there and the selection of Who’s on First remained a users choice affair.

Were it me looking for another preamp for such an end, I’d look at the upper end preamps from JE, VTL, BAT, Thor, VAC, etc. All of which include glass. There’s others of course but you’ve got to figure out just what you want in the reproduction of a 2 ch signal first…. And which amp, though I’d keep hold of your 600 given how you see current or future acquisitions. There’s nothing wrong with that piece. .. land certainly not yet. It’s stable, powerful, and works well in either balanced or SE mode using adapters.

I’d begin by trying out (buying) myself either a dedicated SS line stage, or a tubed one of moderate expense. $2K or so, or equal to the value of that proc you’re using now… doing that should give you some better insight as to what is to be expected. $1500 to $2000 on a ded preamp definitely will open your eyes.

Very good luck
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paulfolbrecht
603 posts
 
If you listen mainly to compressed, modern pop music, or non-acoustic music, digitally, then Bob is right - speakers make "the most" difference.

If not then the electronics in the chain are just or nearly as important.
energizer
113 posts
 
may i suggest a marantz 7 c.will cost you much less than the above mentioned preamps.i tried a lexicon processor in my system.while the sound quality was very good for 2 channel,it lacked any reasonable amount of gain.another suggestion would be a bottle head pre.i recently bought one for 155.00.sound quality is great,gain is more than enough for any system. and they hold their value very well.lastly a pre for 2 channel sound is a must. processors were built for home theatre not 2 channel systems.check out bottlehead.com.read what other bottle head users have to say about their purchases.
jim_swantko
301 posts
 
There is no comparison between a dedicated preamp and a processor in my experience.
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