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how close in sound can a tube and ss amp sound ?

i have observed threads requesting advice regarding tube sounding solid state amps, within a price point.

i wonder how to confirm such a request.

in addition to recommendations, what about comparing a particular ss amp to a particular tube amp using an experimental design where bias, or preconception has been eliminated ?

has anyone tested the hypothesis that he/she cannot detect the difference between a tube and a ss amp, within the same power range, price point and minimizing interaction problems, such as impedeance mismatches ?

on the other hand if someone is seeking a tube-like sound out of a solid state amp, i would assume that one would use a "classic" sounding tube amp, e.g., cj mv 45, cj 75, cj 100, or cj mv125 as the tube amp and try to find a ss amp that is indistinguishable from the sound of the classic tube amp.

i have found that many ss amps differ with respect to bass and treble response from many tube amps.

in my own case, i would love to find a 120 watt ss amp which sounds like my vtl tube amp. unfortunately, i am not optimistic.

in other threads, some people have stated that it is impossible to find a ss amp that is "tube-like", in the classic sense.
mrtennis
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,807 posts
 
Audiofeil, my point is that during that comparison, no-one is thinking that they are comparing amps that are clipping. They don't know that that is what is happening. If you have a speaker that is 89 db and a 35 watt amp, depending on room size and listening habits, **inaudible** clipping could be going on a lot.

The effect of inaudible clipping could be a change in tonality before outright clipping is detected by the listener. Or it could be perceived as compression, perhaps a strained quality of the amplifier during complex passages. It depends on how the amp is built, how robust the power supplies are, that sort of thing.

Mr. Tennis, I did give one example earlier- the Nelson Pass First Watt. Another would be the Ridley Audio amplifier. Last I heard that one was over $100,000. I might have mentioned this before too- making a transistor amp that does not distort odd ordered harmonics is not easy.
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
Okay I get it now. If an amplifier clips in a forest and there's nobody around to hear it, audibly or inaudibly, is it still clipping?

Maybe you should write one of your white papers to make it easier for the those of us living in the forest to understand. How about:

"The inaudible effects of clipping when comparing 2 amplifiers that aren’t clipping but would if you pushed them to clipping levels and the resultant perceptions of the listeners who infrequently listen at clipping levels".

What do you think?
auxetophone
114 posts
 
I wouldn't expect most people to have clipping on SS amps of say 100 watts or more, unless listening very loudly, inefficient speakers, etc. Admittedly, many tube amps and almost all SET amps are smaller than this. So, while tube amps may clip more gracefully than some SS amps, they are also more likely to clip. So I tend to think that whatever causes the different character of SS and tube amps, it isn't clipping behavior.

I'm especially confident as it relates to my own experience, because this difference is obvious at whisper levels and is similar at normal levels . . .
tmsorosk
1,013 posts
 
After reading all these posts I'm starting to think I'm the only one thats been buying the right sized amps . The only amp I can recall that clipped was 30 years ago , A very large Sansui receiver . I guess since then Iv'e been purchasing the right amp for the application .
Happy new year
Tim
auxetophone
114 posts
 
I think it's true for most of us as well. However, a consideration - especially for a tube amp, where watts is not quite so cheap - is how badly do you need to avoid clipping?

If an amp clips very gracefully (i.e., it only gently compresses the loudest dynamics and sounds good in the process), then it might not make financial sense to buy an amp powerful enough to never clip.

My solid state amps are all large enough to easily stay in the linear range, but I do have a couple small tube amps that I probably drive into clipping on the very loudest peaks. Nevertheless, the nature of these amps is apparent even at very low volumes, so I don't think their clipping behavior explains the "tube sound".

If we were discussing guitar amps, the story would be very different, since distortion is intentional there.
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