How can a 40 watt amp outshine a 140 watt amp

I had wondered the same thing too and found that current means more than watts (rarely do you see current in specs). I had a Bryston B100 rated at 180w @4ohms. I did buy an Octave V70SE rated 70w @4ohms. The Octave is tubes which is different than solid state. I also found the Naim line of integrated's seem to have a lot more current than the rated watts (50 to 80w) if interested in solid state and used should be right in your price range.

The biggest difference I hear with the Octave is much more control in the music. The loudness is the same. Since the Octave is tubes I can change them out and get a different sound like more or less bass - mids and highs depending on the tubes (type and manufacturer). For example with either the KT88's or the 6550's the bass just kills my Bryston (and Bryston is known for decent bass). With the EL34's not as much bass as the Bryston but killer mid range and highs. So I can't say what to expect in your system with your room - speakers and source. That's what I hear in my system but I think Cmalak summed it up the best in general.

Good luck

Unfortunately the Octave is a little beyond your budget too at almost $7K but a killer unit for the money.

Schipo I only have 1 problem with Mr Clarks conclusions. That being he may have been comparing 2 very closely types of amps. I would like to see the results of comparing something like my Bryston B100 and my Octave V70SE. To me there is no comparison and the differences are (punch you in the nose) obvious. Granted the msrp of my Bryston was 5k vs 7k for my Octave.

So my stance stays - There is a great deal of differences with just the amp BUT speakers - source and ROOM make a huge difference. I think I have heard that referred to as system synergy. I'm just trying to answer Mystertee's question with what I have experienced not what someone else thinks. I don't mean to knock your reply because I agree with most of your previous posts.

Xti16: thank you for your reply to The Richard Clark Amp Challenge. I find it interesting reading and I myself believe that in all probability that in real world. Most and that's including myself. At normal listening,can not tell the difference between the much more expensive from the budget.Its a great possibility at clipping I would? I thank you all and only posted to keep the conversation going.

Interesting reading about Richard Clark's test, BUT does that mean the amps sounded the BEST they could be. In other words, does makeing two amps sound the same result in equally bad or good sound?

I believe in an additional objection to the Richard Clark test method.

The Speaker.

All speakers certainly do not react the same to all loads. I'm not even talking the difference between speakers which have a preference to current or voltage source amps.
Many speakers have wacky characteristics and huge phase swings, even if impedance would appear to be within reason. Worst case? Combine a phase shift of 50 or 60 degrees with an impedance dip to say.....3 ohms. Low power amps or amps which don't like this kind of behavior need not apply. Even if a tube amp would meet Clark's criteria, I'm sure if you compared a heavily capacitive speaker, you'd notice a difference.

Perhaps, when running within limits amps do sound alike, but for some amps and speaker combinations, those limits are either at low levels or maybe even frequency limited. I'd love to hear my panels with 6 or 8 SET watts.

And finally, while I hate to drag Bob Carver into this, I think he demonstrated differences between amps based on Transfer Function. He would somehow connect 2 amps to the same speaker. Any sound the speaker made was the DIFFERENCE between the amplifiers transfer function. After adjustment, the speaker would 'null' and at least for THAT speaker, the amps could be considered identical.

And Xti, the difference between 5k and 7k is negligible. Any manufacturer should be pretty much able to do their best work for that kind of money. Toss something like 700$s worth of Onkyo A-9555 into the mix and see what'cha get. You can probably get the Onkyo for what would amount to a TRUE nutty hi-end guy's pocket change.