High-end amplifier clarification?

03-03-11:
One of the above posters mentioned Levinson being hi end . I would not consider my Levinson #431 hi end . In fact I would not consider any of my system high end , ( see my system link ) . It used to be if you spent $10,000 on a single component you were in that elite group but now with six figure gear the bar has been raised , not that price is what matters .
-Tmsorosk

Tmsorosk, i would consider Levinson hi-end , absolutely not mid-fi...

regards,

Sound is very subjective, one man's euphoria is another' anathema. An amplifiers job is that of an voltage source, expensive high end amplifiers that cannot replicate such, is well ................

A Pretender.

Weseixas, so you exclude Nelson Pass?? Gamut?? Shindo?? Kondo?? Lamm?? VAC?? Sorry. Your model does not hold up. BTW, you might be interested in this;

http://vintagefisher.com/vintage-fisher-55-a-tube-power-amp-monobloc-55a/

What we see is a Fisher 55-A mono amplifier. The knob on the lower right hand side is the Z-Matic knob, which is a variable feedback control. It is labeled: "Constant Voltage" on the fully counterclockwise position, "Constant Power" at 12 o'clock, and "Constant Current" at fully clockwise.

You seemed to accuse me of 'pseudo science' on another thread recently; I just thought you should see this so that you would know that I did not make something up. And also, you can see that tube amplifiers are capable of being voltage sources. The Wolcott is an example of that.

However now that you see that I *did not* make this up, and that a feedback control is having something to do with this on the Fisher, then you will see that my comments about negative feedback being something that is often part of the Voltage Paradigm (http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html ) is not made up either.

And it is a fact, borne out of real science, that there is a price paid for the inclusion of negative feedback in most amplifiers- that of increased odd ordered harmonic distortion, which is shown to be unpleasant to the human ear.

So the bottom line is that it is **intention** that defines what a high end amplifier is. It is certainly not the ability to drive 2 ohms, as quite often that ability means that the amplifier might not sound like real music, and therefore neither can the speaker being thus driven. Some designers want to see their equipment sound better than that. You see? Its intention, and nothing else.

Now just so we are clear, it may be the intention of the designer that the amp *should* drive a 2 ohm load as a voltage source. That's fine- it still falls under the definition of intention.

Ralph,

You are right, my apologies, I will take back my opinion.

regards,

Ohhh,

Audio playback is not static, ever thought what you are considering to be good or bad audio has more to do with the dynamic application involved than it's distortion derivative.

regards,

So the bottom line is that it is **intention** that defines what a high end amplifier is. It is certainly not the ability to drive 2 ohms, as quite often that ability means that the amplifier might not sound like real music, and therefore neither can the speaker being thus driven. Some designers want to see their equipment sound better than that. You see? Its intention, and nothing else. - Atmasphere

So who determines when the amplifier sounds like real music Ralph, Stereophile, Absolute sound, you, me? ........

Any and all hi -end amplfiers IMO, should be :

* True Voltage source
* Have Low THD/TIM
* Wide bandwidth 10-100K.

as the basic's, how can an amplifier that can't even pass a proper 10,20, 20K, 50K or 100K squarewave even be considered accurate, musical? Maybe, anything can be musical, it depends on the ears, accurate to the input signal .... NAH !

The dynamic function involved in reproducing music is very complex AND in the absolute world an amplifier's role is not to have any sonic signature, regardless of load, nothing to do with pleasant THD vs Bad THD, that's absurd and as a designer why would you not want a true voltage source, why because yours can't?

Please !!!!

It's time we started discussing in absolute terms Ralph it's not by coincidence that a lot of top rated amplifiers are True voltage source type or close to it. I do fully understand you feel you have to defend your topology, OK, but maybe you need to step away from these type of discussions instead of turning this into another tube vs SS thing we always seem to get into.

Now does this mean an amp that is not a true voltage source will sound bad, Absolutely not!! but it will be limited to it's "intended" 8 ohm purpose, forget about SOTA ...

Also some of the amplifiers mentioned by you do suffer tonal coloration with load change, they work best at 8/4 ohms IMO.

Unfortunately and If one's intent is a SOTA system, with the intent to sound like live music, there is no 8 ohm speaker to do so and invariably 4 and below will creep in.

Regards,