High-end amplifier clarification?

So the bottom line is that it is **intention** that defines what a high end amplifier is. It is certainly not the ability to drive 2 ohms, as quite often that ability means that the amplifier might not sound like real music, and therefore neither can the speaker being thus driven. Some designers want to see their equipment sound better than that. You see? Its intention, and nothing else. - Atmasphere

So who determines when the amplifier sounds like real music Ralph, Stereophile, Absolute sound, you, me? ........

Any and all hi -end amplfiers IMO, should be :

* True Voltage source
* Have Low THD/TIM
* Wide bandwidth 10-100K.

as the basic's, how can an amplifier that can't even pass a proper 10,20, 20K, 50K or 100K squarewave even be considered accurate, musical? Maybe, anything can be musical, it depends on the ears, accurate to the input signal .... NAH !

The dynamic function involved in reproducing music is very complex AND in the absolute world an amplifier's role is not to have any sonic signature, regardless of load, nothing to do with pleasant THD vs Bad THD, that's absurd and as a designer why would you not want a true voltage source, why because yours can't?

Please !!!!

It's time we started discussing in absolute terms Ralph it's not by coincidence that a lot of top rated amplifiers are True voltage source type or close to it. I do fully understand you feel you have to defend your topology, OK, but maybe you need to step away from these type of discussions instead of turning this into another tube vs SS thing we always seem to get into.

Now does this mean an amp that is not a true voltage source will sound bad, Absolutely not!! but it will be limited to it's "intended" 8 ohm purpose, forget about SOTA ...

Also some of the amplifiers mentioned by you do suffer tonal coloration with load change, they work best at 8/4 ohms IMO.

Unfortunately and If one's intent is a SOTA system, with the intent to sound like live music, there is no 8 ohm speaker to do so and invariably 4 and below will creep in.

Regards,

More on your favorite topic:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/distortion/distortion_2.html

Weseixas, some of the best speakers I have heard are much more than 4 ohms.

Just so you know, our amps can do a 20 Hz square wave with no measurable square wave tilt, which will not be the case with an amplifier that cuts off at 10Hz.

The point of this thread I thought was all about what made an amplifier high end. To that regard, I hate to say it but its a simple fact that the intention of the designer is what fulfills this definition, not the actual sound produced! Now you are welcome to your opinion, but I think as you look at this subject, in due time you will see that a certain ability in an amplifier is not sufficient to call it high end without other factors.

Now you say I am defending my topology, and there is some truth in that, but at the same time I am also defending others, for example those that were on my list in my last post. In each case, a high end amplifier manufacturer was named, but their 2 ohms response is likely limited.

Now I realize that the whole Voltage/Power paradigm thing is a problem for you. I used the term 'paradigm' for a reason: A paradigm exists when anything outside that platform of thought is simply discounted as 'not right', 'bogus', 'non existent', 'pseudo science', etc.

Now I think you have also brought up a different subject, which is 'what is the State of the Art (SOTA)' which is a different question from 'what is high end?' We can easily see that there is a difference- if the manufacturer of your amplifier has another model that is built with similar ideals, are you going to tell me one is high end and the other is not?

It may be as well a question that is equally difficult to answer- it took me 15-20 years to have a really good answer to the issue of high end.

But I can say this: what would define State of the Art? The ability to drive 2 ohms? In the absence of the ability to also sound like real music, the answer there is no. IOW, the ability to sound like real music has got to be in the cards, because it is the music that it is all about.

Now if you could build an amplifier that was a voltage source, that was also lacking in the odd ordered harmonics that color such amplifiers, I would be down with that in a heartbeat. I don't like brightness- to me its a more sinful coloration than the traditional 'tube' sound (by that I mean the 2nd harmonic, which BTW is lacking in our gear as it is fully differential). So there are aspects of this that seem to point at taste.

The point of this thread I thought was all about what made an amplifier high end. To that regard, I hate to say it but its a simple fact that the intention of the designer is what fulfills this definition, not the actual sound produced! -Atmasphere,

LOL, Ralph, i guess that response will do..... I accept :)

The best speakers made are lower than 8 ohms and this is absolutely true for a SOTA speaker system, if low distortion and low dynamic compression is the goal.

I would not be interested in an amplifier that is not a true voltage source or at least close to, too much of a compromise to begin with IMO and i will agree that in itself does not make an amplifier hi-end, just not SOTA.

Maybe we should define a price point , i will give this ago, any SS Amp over 10K should be a voltage source amplfier IMO.

Betta ?

Regards,

Atmasphere,

Where can i find bench test results of your amplifiers? Most tubies have issues with a 20 hz square wave due to there trannies, so it would be interesting to see what yours look like without.

Do you post on your web site ? I last heard one of your amplifiers at Stereophile 94, we were on the same floor, so i guess a ton has been done since, well apart from the Hi-end renumeration... :)

Will you be in Atlanta ?

Regards,