Sonic atributes ultralinear vs tetrode vs pentode

Trelja, obviously we see things very differently :)

I've done a lot of work over the years with ultralinear amps (quite a lot of those were Dynaco amps)! There is no way I would say they rule the day, I would put ultralinear as a distant second to real triodes.

With regards to your prior paragraphs, I think we are pretty much saying the same thing.

One way I use to deal with the linearity issues that allow me to get the amp to work better is to cross-couple the cathode circuits around the output of the transformer. In this way I get greater linearity, with lower output impedance, and that is what has allowed me to run zero feedback to the driver section. IMO that is how you get the amplifier to be low distortion and listenable at the same time; if you use feedback the amplifier will pick up a harder edge.

Atmasphere, you've done nothing to address my refutation of your quote regarding Ultralinear operation giving "most of" what both triode and pentode offer.

As I initially said, the subject at hand represents yet another case of simply splitting the difference between two endpoints, as opposed to getting more out of something than what you put in. The world just doesn't work any way other than that.

If you compare an amplifier running in the three modes, if triode put out 20 wpc, UL would do 40, and pentode 60. Those figures work out in the absolute linear, proportional, and expected manner. In other words, again, your assertion, "while retaining most of the power that Tetrodes (or Pentodes) otherwise make" is untrue. "Ultralinear allows the tubes to approach triode linearity" would not be an incorrect statement in and of itself. But in the context of your position inferring it goes beyond the proportional and expected distance, it is.

"Rule the day" means sales/volume...

OK- here's my text:

Ultralinear allows the tubes to approach triode linearity, while retaining most of the power that Tetrodes (or Pentodes) otherwise make.

here's your assertion:

If you compare an amplifier running in the three modes, if triode put out 20 wpc, UL would do 40, and pentode 60. Those figures work out in the absolute linear, proportional, and expected manner

If we take 60 watts as being 100% of power, 40 watts is then 2/3 of that, or 'most of the power' as I stated above. I don't see that being significantly different from your position. Some hairs are in danger of getting really thin here.

Is "most" defined as 2/3?

Wish I would have known this in high school. Instead of telling my folks my exam score was 66, I could have said I got most of the questions right.

Damn

Atmasphere, "If we take 60 watts as being 100% of power, 40 watts is then 2/3 of that, or 'most of the power' as I stated above. I don't see that being significantly different from your position."

Your understanding is fatally flawed. I'm not sure whether the issue lies on the side of mathematics, logic, or language. This is not a question of splitting hairs, but rather a fundamental difference in statistical analysis.

What first needs to be recognized is that 0 is not one of the endpoints for a comparison between triode (20 wpc for the example at hand) and pentode (60 wpc). UL (40 wpc) is exactly midway (IOW, 50% not 66.67%) between the two. As such, the word "most" can never be used in such a context.

Again, how we got into this circle was your claim, "Ultralinear allows the tubes to approach triode linearity, while retaining most of the power that Tetrodes (or Pentodes) otherwise make."

If you simply took the position that you are personally fond of this particular compromise, I'd understand and accept it. However, steadfastly refusing to concede the point regarding the word "most" in your argument is analogous to mixing black and white paint (or, red and yellow M&Ms?) in a 50 - 50 ratio, then attempting to claim it has more than 50% of one of characteristics of black (or red), while at the same time possessing more than 50% of one of the characteristics of white (or yellow).

I'm not sure how else I can make the point, but a great many of the classical scientific laws dating back to the ancient Greeks have proven you can't get more out of something in this world than you put into it.