Audio Research Corp Ref 5 SE

What does everyone notice as the 'break in' process completes somewhere between 300-600 hours with ARC procducts?

I recently purchased both ARC Ref 250 monos and an ARC Ref Phono 2SE to replace a Rowland 302 and Rowland Cadence phono. Still using the Rowland Synergy IIi as I await the funds for a Ref 5SE preamp.

In my system, replacing the Rowland with ARC, I noticed a more open sound, better ambience retrieval of space, more detail. Bass slam was similar. With the Rowland gear, the sound was a tad dark, but with ARC (so far) I'm getting a thinning in the midrange that I miss a bit compared to the midrange solidity of the Rowland. Not sure what synergy I would get with a Ref 5SE to complete the ARC electronics, etc.

Very good question Phil. Perhaps Dbarger will illuminate us. Here's a 10,000 foot response at 350 hours. I think the changes ARE occurring but are very subtle. That's why it's hard for me to be more specific.

But I can say this. The natural synergy that exists between the Ref 5 SE and my other ARC components cannot be overstated. I really enjoy listening to the music, especially when working at home. Just pop in a CD and listen to Mile Davis jazz -- heaven.

As an aside, on the one hand, I have gained immeasurably from reading the OPs on the Forum. But OTOH, on occassion, the "techno-speak" causes me to listen to the gear and NOT the music.

Just recently, I have been obsessing about amp and speaker compatibility. After having auditioned a pair of Vandies and my S8s -- no more. I'm doing just fine as is. I'm just going to listen to the music and settle down. My problem is that I am a frustrated EE audio equipment designer and just plain too dumb to be a EE audio equipment audio designer.

Sorry Ralph (Atmasphere). I would have loved to work at your company in a zero negative feedback environment. Just not smart enough. And too, I've come to hate odd-numbered harmonic distortion. I'd drive both of us crazy.

Cheers ;>)

I know it is hard to believe, but I actually found the improvements from 500-600 hrs. to be fairly profound. Up until the, maybe, 300 hour mark, it just did not breathe as freely. It sounded a little constrained. It required a 20 minute warm-up to sound its best. I am now at 780 hrs, and it sounds better in five minutes than it used to in 40. Just more open, relaxed, transparent, free breathing, effortless, and musical. Less mechanical, if you will. Now, that said, if you don't like the sound at 300 hrs, you will likely still not like it at 600. I also have a Shindo preamp and enjoy that also. They are different, and have different presentations. I appreciate both. Would I want one with the best aspects of both? I doubt it. I like the contrasts, and the different insights they both bring.

Dbarger, I think I will stand corrected. I pulled out some LPs I haven't listened to in a while and I think there really may be a real difference. Btw, I also correct myself re the hours. It's only 285 right now. So, the Ref 5 SE is still breaking in.

In any case, I think your comment that the Ref 5 seems to "breathe [more] freely" is well put. More open and transparent. Tighter and more focused imaging and wider 3-D sound stage than before. Actually quite impressive.

I'm listening to an old London Phase 4 LP where Leo Stowkoski is conducting the London Symphony Orchestra, playing a lot of his old standards like Night on Bald Mountain, Ride of the Valkyries, etc. Wow -- I can almost see each instrument.

I may be a believer yet. I'll report back in a couple hundred hours or so. Cheers.

Dbarger, sorry to come back so soon, but I pulled out my old Miles Davis CD, Kind of Blue. I am not BS'ing when I tell you that I can "see" where the trumpet and piano are in 3-D space. Even more -- almost the piano keyboard. Not bad for my "mid-fi" speakers. Enough .... I'll be back later.