Vintage Power Amp vs new age power amp

Good sound is where you find it. You can't exactly make a sweeping generalization about vintage vs. modern, but you can apply a few principles, also knowing that just when you have formulated a rule of thumb, along comes a unit that defies it.

In general, modern amplifiers are going to be more aware of how to apply negative feedback in doses that improve linearity without damaging rise times and musicality. Also, in general modern amps will have wider bandwidth (again, translating into faster rise times and therefore better transparency) and wider signal-to-noise ratios.

But you also often find that the "audio classics" of the '70s and '80s share many of these traits such as high s/n, negative feedback applied in nests and with restraints, high current and low output impedance, and wider bandwidth (translating into faster rise times and more accurate square wave response).

A great example of this is the McIntosh MC275, a 51-yr-old tube amp design with usable bandwidth out to 100KHz (and corresponding near-perfect square wave response), low noise, and low distortion. The Marantz in question has an outstanding s/n for its time (110 dB, competitive even today) and decent response curve--only down 1 dB at 60 KHz.

I have a couple of vintage SS amps, a VTL TransMOS 150 from around 1985, with very high damping factor, with very low output impedance and high current (it's stable into 0 ohms). It was a transconductance amp, taking advantage of MOSFET technology to make a transconductance amp with a signal path modeled after tube amps. The Acoustat/Hafler TransNova designs had a similar approach and a patent war over this technology. My TransMOS amps have deep, extended bass, great stability, and a sort of liquid presentation. The upscale Gold Edition was one of J. Gordon Holt's favorite amps in the mid-'80s.

And yet, I picked up a 1981 Heathkit AA-1600 bipolar power amp that kicks its ass in every way. Its specs reveal a wider bandwidth (out to 100 Khz) and excellent s/n of 100 dB. There is also the parts and build quality; the execution of this amp leaves nothing to be desired. I picked a refurbished one up for $239 and it trumped the VSP Labs handily--faster, more transparent, more neutral, no distracting SS glare.

Still...a couple months ago I heard a $999 Marantz PM8004 integrated amp powering a pair of $12.5K Sonus Faber Cremona Ms. This amp trumps most vintage amps and certainly 'most anything you'd find at or near its list price. It has an extraordinary s/n, especially compared to vintage amps--125 dB, and a nice wide bandwidth. It is dead nuts neutral with no detectable coloration and can drive a $12.5K pair of speakers to take your breath away.

So...vintage vs. modern? As always, categories have to give way to the merits of the individual units. The 1981 bipolar Heathkit beats the more "enlightened" VSP Labs TransMOS 150, and yet the modern $999 Marantz PM8004 integrated amp--complete with excellent phono stage, built-in low-noise line stage, pre-out/main-in, and bypassable 3-band EQ and balance controls--trumps them both along with countless other vintage amps.

There is also the personality factor. Some of the old Marantz tube amps are classics, with aficionados who love them for their largely unduplicated organic midrange purity at the expense of somewhat flabby bass control.

What to do about the Marantz 300DC? How does the price compare with other limited edition, carefully built amps with a 5-60Khz frequency response, outstanding s/n of 110 dB, plus the coolness factor of a 34-year-old design with those big meters that can still make beautiful music? Before you make your decision, try to listen to a Marantz PM8004, or any amp from their Reference series with the HDAM circuit

Chaozhoi,

I glanced at your other thread. I think there is a good chance that you may prefer the 300dc in this case (assuming it's operating correctly).

I've been having fun putting together a vintage system in a spare room. I'm using a Marantz 16b amp and it's better than a few more "modern" amps I tried. Matching the characteristics of an amp AND speaker goes a long way toward satisfaction.

Bananas: There are adapters you can buy to make them work with the Marantz (search the bay). I bought a few sets of them when I had a Mac 275. I'm glad I kept them as I now use them on the 16b.

I would definitely consider hi end vintage over entry level current. Buconero 117 made a very important point. Not only that, but who does the rebuild is paramount to how this thing is going to end up. I'm a vintage fan and have several rebuilt amps, some of which came back with serious issues. Fortunately I have the know-how and was able to correct the problems. However, my knowledge is limited. On the other hand, since learning my lesson, I have a G.A.S. 500 Ampzilla rebuilt by Mike Bettinger of Gas Audio I would put up against anything on the planet. This thing is virtually brand new. Even the transformer is re-wound. But it cost $2250.00. I also have an Acoustat TNT 200 currently being rebuilt by non other than Roy Esposito who was part of the engineering team that designed it. This exercise is costing me about $1600.00. However, this will be state of the art. So you can end up with something which will go toe to toe with current state of the art sound at a much more reasonable outlay but more than a lot of current entry level amps.

I bought a used but new(er) Dynakit ST-70 here at Audiogon,The original owner got it from tubes4hifi.com you can get them new or build them yourself.

It has the VTA driver board,with decent tubes this amp has pleased me more than the Accuphase P-300, E202 P500 (bleck!) and Forte 4a, Wyred4sound st-250, Quicksilvers and a bunch of other great amps.

I paid $600 for it and it's a keeper. I now only run vintage tube amps from the 60's and 50's, it's the sound I've always been looking for. I have a H.H Scott 222D and Eico HF 22 monoblocks that are also top self, they will have to be pried out of my cold dead hands...

I recommend you go vintage restored tube amp, like the Scott 222 or others with great reps. plus they're dam cool!

My 2 cents

I'm not a tube guy, but I happen to have an old Dynakit ST-70 in need of tubes but otherwise in great shape. I have a brand new R. Waters designed driver board and bias module I think I'll finally get around to installing. I ran across an interesting article on the net entitled "Hot-Rodding the Eico ST-70". This guy found a way to double the output without changing the transformers and without increasing distortion. This technique apparently applies to all tube amps. You've piqued my curiosity.