The Audio Research Reference 10 is here $30k

I consider the ARC sound to be analytical as opposed to musical. When people hear "more" with ARC electronics they assume that means better, but I'm not sure. ARC is "clinical" as opposed to musical, according to my sensibilities. Although I can't afford that particular preamp, I'm not sure I would buy ARC, even if I could afford it.

"Lean Sound"? What the heck did you hook their linestages up to and with Larryi? They are big, warm side of neutral and dynamic...never lean.

Mitch, I'm a big ARC fan. But let me help out with a little perspective. I used to own the Ref 3 and I liked it a lot. But upgrade fever kicked in and ARC ballyhooed (sp?) the new revolutionary Ref 5 as being in a different league than the Ref 3.

I picked up a used Ref 5 for a good price. In my humble opinion, my reaction is it's a little drier than the Ref 3. Maybe bass is a touch tighter. But are we talking "different league" or change measured in "tweaks"? I think the later.

I used to own the PH-7 phono pre too. ARC came out with the PH-8 which was "cut out of the same sonic cloth" as the Ref Phono 2. For the life of me, I'm not getting it.

Ok, last chance. Perhaps foolishly, my Ref 5 is scheduled for the factory SE upgrade at the end of the month. I've read comments that say it will take the Ref 5 to 85+% the way to the Ref Anniversary. We'll see.

I'll report back after the upgrade breaks in. In the meantime, hold your dough. I predict the Ref 3 will be a classic for years to come.

I bought the ph 5 from a dealer when I got back into vinyl and damn if the ph 7 didn't come out within a couple of months - although 4k higher, thanks Bifwynne for reminding me about the ph8 - I had forgotten that one!

Pops, if you can pick up a used PH-7, I think you will be quite happy. I spent serious bucks to move up to the PH-8. I am not convinced the PH-8 is leagues better than the PH-7. I'm not even sure the PH-8 is even better than the PH-7 -- yikes, heresy!