Non-feedback amplification topology and frequency


Is it true that non-feedback topology amplification is prone to frequency limitations if not matched with the absolute perfect speaker system?
I'm trying grasp how to get a flat sound from my very much loved new PL5. I have resorted to EQ, that never mentioned term on these forum, to bring back the ultra-highs of cymbals and bells etc. I've also rolled the pre-tubes and switched out my ICs. Still very much a frown freq graph.
I'm willing to get new speakers to help this amp deliver on its promises. Focal seem nicely high in sensitivity.
jmacinnis
Onhwy61, No. Its simply the way it is. One example (if you read the article) is using transistors on ESLs. Its difficult for them to play bass, and often too bright.

Mapman, Correct- never is a long time. The problem is, we are not likely to change the way our ears work. We can do a lot of things in the medical world, but changing the system that our ears employ is not one of them.

Dracule1, I have no worries about criticism. If I had made the stuff up, that might be different. But I can point you to examples easily enough that will show that my article is not something new, but in fact something old:

Here is a link to a Google search: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=fisher+A-80+amplifier&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The very first hit is a YouTube video image of a Fisher amplifier from the 1950s. The control is inscribed "Constant Voltage" at fully counterclockwise, "Constant Power" at noon and "Constant Current" fully clockwise. The control is a feedback control and balances voltage feedback against current feedback. At noon they cancel each other out (zero feedback). So to disprove me you have to disprove history. All my article does is collect the facts in a single place.

Marqmike, unfortunately all amplifiers make odd ordered harmonics. It is the 5th, 7th and 9th that we are concerned about (the 3rd is considered musical to the human ear). When you add negative feedback to any amplifier design, the result will always be an enhancement of odd orders, even if the feedback is successful in removing most of the open loop distortions ('open loop' means the amp operating without feedback).

The reason this is so has to do with the fixed amount of time it takes a signal to move through a circuit. This time is called 'propagation delay'. The issue is that a low frequencies feedback works pretty good, but as frequency is increased, the propagation delay means that the feedback signal is arriving later and later to correct the circuit. In fact a designer has to be careful with feedback because this effect means that at some frequency the feedback as actually positive rather than negative. This is entirely due to the propagation delay in the amp.

Further complicating things is the fact that the negative feedback analysis performed on amplifiers is done with steady-state signals like sine waves. Audiophile OTOH listen to chaotic, constantly changing waveforms arising from real music. If you think that the amp will behave the same with both signals you are incorrect- the amp will be more distorted with constantly changing waveforms than it will be with a sine wave!

If you analyze and amplifier using Chaos Theory, what we see is that the amp with feedback is considered a chaotic system. In fact the formula for feedback in an amplifier is the same as it is for a classic Chaotic System. However, an amp without feedback, thus analyzed does not behave according to the same formulae! This is a major difference between the two.

Interestingly enough, most of this has been known since the 1950s. Anyone interested should read Norman Crowhurst. He wrote a very interesting booklet on amplifiers and negative feedback. It is available as a free download off of the Pete Millet website. His writings apply as much now as they did 50 years ago.

The bottom line here is that amps without feedback, if otherwise designed to be linear, will have less odd-ordered harmonic content if also operated within their linear region. However, this may not mean what most people think so I will give a classic example:

We all know that SETs have a reputation for 'inner detail' and also that they are amazingly dynamic for their small power output. The reason this is so has to do with the way the SET amplifier makes distortion. At low power it essentially makes no distortion at all- this is the source of that 'inner detail'. But at powers above about 1/4 full power, the odd orders begin to make their appearance (masked by the 2nd, 3rd and 4th harmonics). The ear/brain system uses these harmonics to figure out how loud a sound is and since music has a lot of transients, the odd orders start to show up on the transient first. This means the loudness cues are on the transients of the music- presto! the amp *sounds* 'dynamic'.

The fact of the matter is that as a result, in about 90% of all audiophile conversation, the word 'dynamics' can be safely replaced by the word 'distortion' without changing the meaning of the conversation.

Sorry for the long post...
Thanks atmasphere. That is a plausible explanation why SET amplifiers which almost always employ zero NFB sound more involving (dynamic) than reality. I've found SET amps with zero NFB to be less accurate than PP amps using NFB.
Ralph,

That was a VERY cool video of the Fisher Z-Matic. I'm constantly amazed of what was done...back-in-the-day!

Regards,
Sam
Dracule I see this feedback issue hit a nerve as you started a whole new thread about essentially the same thing as this one. I'm quite ok now with Atmasphere's description of the facts and history of this topic. It is up to debate only whether or not you subjectively like the sound of what comes from feeback or not, and isn't that just taste in the end? I prefer vinyl because of the way my ear reacts...it sure isn't the highest quality choice in terms of specs. My original question was just, Do you need to be more carefull when selecting speakers with non feedback amps. Answered.
Today I am the happy owner of a beautiful pair of Cantons that are fully engaging and blow my old system away. It would be fun to play with the feedback knob on your amp though :)