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Arcam P777 or Theta Intrepid

After weighing reviews, price, and designs, I have narrowed some multi-channel amp choices down to these two. I am looking used and spending @2500 tops, thus eliminating an Ayre V-6xe and Bryston 9BSST/SST2, which I was also considering. Also, I have a Bryston 2B-LP right not, and while I love its transients, bass, and control, I have always found it a bit harsh in the mids/uppers and really want to get away from that. I was considering an ATI amp, as well, but read some stuff that they might sound similar (It sucks not being able to listen to all this stuff myself!).

CAP has the Intrepid new for 1500, which seems like a stellar deal and to rank very high on the sound-for-money scale. Unfortunately, I cannot hear it locally and am going solely on reviews and having heard Ayre amps with a similar design (no global feedback and fully balanced). On paper, the Intrepid sounds like a truly hi-end design, perhaps just a little under powered, for a stupidly good price. I haven't heard the P777 either but have do currently have a C31 and CD36. I have heard Arcam amps in the past, only via their integrateds, and thought that they were not their strong suit, but this is obviously a much more powerful choice and dedicated design. I found them warm and nice but just not as detailed or spacious sounding. It also has the power and bi-amping my fronts capability advantage.

I will be running Vandersteen 2 Sigs, a VCC Sig, and VSMs in a 13x13x9 room. I also have a 2W to take some low end load off the 2s. I normally don't listen to movies all that loudly, honestly, and my focus is on music. I wanted to get some comments from people who might have heard both/either. Thanks!
jwseitz
jwseitz OP
21 posts
 
Zydo,

Since you are an Arcam dealer, you have heard their other amps and integrateds. Do you agree that the amplification in the integrateds are not bad but less than stellar? Too warm and not as detailed and controlled as other stuff? I just wondering if you recognize that the P777 is an improvement over these and by how much of a margin? I have read so-so comments about the P38, so I'm just worried that it won't be that much of an improvement. It sure looks good on paper, though!

I am also a big fan of Arcam because of the performance-for-money value of the brand. I have found that for X dollars, they do really, really well. That is based on what I have heard, of course, and we all know there are endless brands and options in hi-fi that are not carried by one's local shops. I used to have an Alpha 9CD and Alpha 9Pre before upgrading to the FMJ stuff, and it was a big jump. As I have upgraded my cables, the sound keeps getting better. Their amps have been the only question mark for me.

Does anyone know how many output transistors per channel they use in the P777? I don't see it anywhere. Also, they are not fully balanced, correct? I don't think their XLRs are really balanced, either, if I read correctly. That stuff worries me from a design standpoint.

Anyone heard the Cary 7.125?
bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
Arcam is in the mid segment the most warm sounding brand. There are many speakers which sound better cause of the warm sound. Many people prefer the warm sound over the more natural or clean sounding amps. I do not see this as a disadvantage. With Arcam you never can go wrong. A few yeard ago I visit the factory in England. There work about 60 people. Very kind and down to earth people.
paraneer's avatar
paraneer
818 posts
 
No problem Zydo. I like Arcam gear and I don't believe for one minute one amp can be 2 dimensional while another 3 or more. An amp can be more powerful, quieter, better S/N specs, damping factor, etc and all these specs can be measured. An amp can also be better built and parts, weight and construction can all be verified.

But to say one amp is 2 dimensional while another is not is pure subjective opinion that cannot be substantiated. Its not a spec - its a made up term. And from a salesman to boot! I really don't care if Bo prefers one brand over another. We all do. But I don't like anyone peddling their wares by slamming the competition and using make believe terms like 2 dimensional to do it. Not a good way to sell.

Makes me want to buy an Arcam.
bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
It is as it is. Arcam is compared to Primare and Pass a 2-dimensional brand. But who cares if in there price range others are 2 dimensional as well. Difference between 2-dimensional and 3-dimensional is very easy to compare. All brands have there own talents/properties. Wenn you test them and compare them you will easily understand the difference. Depth for a speaker will occure wenn a brand is able to make very good cross over filter for there speakers. But for amps, pre-amps, sources you need the quality to make a stage behind the speakers. Even cables can make a big difference in how wide and deep a stage is. But wenn 1 tool is not good at depth, you will loose most of it. Instruments and voices are very small and direct in real. Because there are still many brands in cables who will make an instrument or voice to big in proportion. You will loose intimate focus. This menas the music is more away from you. This means less emotion. It is very esasy to let people hear the difference between 2-dimensional and 3-dimensinal sound. Just by using the talents/properties of brands. Nothin more, nothing less.
paraneer's avatar
paraneer
818 posts
 
Well Zydo, there you have it. Arcam is still a 2 dimensional brand merely because Bo says so. As he says "it is very easy to let people hear the difference between 2 and 3 dimensional sound just by using the talents and properties of brands".

Now brands have talents too.

To the OP who posted the original question. Either the Theta or Arcam will do a fine job in your system. One amp is not more talented or dimensional than the other.
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