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Seeking opinions on Clearaudio vs. SOTA tables

Looking for opinions and experiences on the SOTA Cosmos vs. Clearaudio Innovation Compact, or thereabouts in each line.

Someday it will be time to upgrade my beloved (never refurbished/upgraded) SOTA Star III. Though it reliably continues making beautiful music, the bearing/springs/etc show signs of being past their prime. The silicon lip was dried out when I acquired the table on consignment 6 years ago, so I've never experienced a working vacuum hold down (I cut the lip off so that records would lay flat).

Based on the Star III, I'd almost certainly love a Cosmos, either new or refurbished (new bearing/platter/vacuum). The question is how much improvement would be gained. Unfortunately, my friendly local dealer doesn't carry SOTA. However they do carry Clearaudio. The Innovation Compact looks rather stunning in design and build -- a work of art. On the other hand, some things about Clearaudio turn me off:
* Very high pricing
* Not a fan of some of their magnetic bearing tonearm implementations; one unit in particular would jump a groove at the *slightest* in-room vibration
* Their screw-on clamp is a huge WTF; that damn screw-cap has no business being able to fully twist off so easily (and the resultant juggling of the damn thing next to a $$$$ cartridge pisses me off like you wouldn't believe) without a stopper!
* Sometimes I feel like they're experts at over-engineering certain elements, but then other elements show neglect and complete lack of thought (see above).
* I've read recently that there may be some dispute as to the effective mass of their Universal tonearm (i.e. their spec may be wrong) -- not confidence inspiring

I got to audition an Ovation Wood (below the Compact) with an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (I do have a decent grasp of how this cart sounds); it has some very nice attributes but ultimately I preferred my SOTA w/ Koetsu Platinum. Not a fair comparison sure, but ultimately it had me doubting whether the Ovation would provide a worthwhile upgrade. The Innovation Compact on the other hand...
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mulveling's avatar
mulveling OP
2,019 posts
 
Thanks again, Audiolui. My current speakers have good detail, superb PRaT, a warm tone, and ample bass impact, so it should be a good pairing.

Any ideas on what is gained in moving from the Innovation Compact to the full Innovation Wood? The latter is more than I want to spend, but it's a big investment either way, so I want to get it right.
mulveling's avatar
mulveling OP
2,019 posts
 
Also, I'm curious as to how much that Innovation Compact sound (which I liked very much) came from the Magnify tonearm. I do like its action & feel; a humongous improvement over their lower-line magnetic bearing arms.

What might happen if I forgo the Clearaudio tonearm and mount my Fidelity Research arm? How difficult and expensive is it to get a custom arm board from Clearaudio? I need to keep at least 1 arm that works well with heavy, low compliance options (like Koetsu).
audiolui
295 posts
 
Good question. I really don't know the improvement of the full Innovation Wood over the Compact. You may need to talk to a dealer or Musical Surroundings (MS). MS people are easy to deal with. I do know that you can upgrade from the full Innovation Wood to the Master Innovation when your budget allows in the future. Ask the dealer or MS if the Compact can be upgraded to the Wood. If so, you have a very nice upgrade path.

It is hard to say which (table or arm) contributes the most to the sound. You may want to buy the table only and try the Fidelity Research first. If you don't like the sound, then get the Clearaudio arm. However, if they give you a very good deal buying both the table and arm together, then you may want to highly consider that offer.

I know it is easy to get from Clearaudio an armboard for the Graham Phantom series arms. Not sure about Fidelity Research. I suggest you talk to MS. Most dealers still need to call MS to find out the answers for you anyway.

I used to own SOTA Sapphire with vacuum many years ago. SOTA is also very good table. I don't know about COSMO. My past experience tells me that SOTA is a bit warmer and fuller sounding. Clearaudio is more detailed and open sounding. Again, it is your taste that dictates what to get.
mulveling's avatar
mulveling OP
2,019 posts
 
A friend and I listened more to the Innovation Compact. I'm totally smitten by its sound, even with JUST that $1200 Cadenza Red. When I started this thread, I really didn't know my dealer would be bringing in that Compact; perhaps he reads these boards :p

I'm now fairly set on going whole-hog for the full Innovation Wood. BUT I'm also considering adding the ring clamp and either a Universal 9" w/ VTA or Graham Phantom Supreme 9"/10". WAY more than I'd planned on spending, and yeah it's going to be a stretch, but it's time to modernize my source and finally make it the system's strong point again.

I'm surprised there's relatively little online discussion of the The Innovation Wood/Compact tables, since they're such stunning pieces of machinery. But then, I guess that's somewhat in line with the lack of attention for my beloved Tannoy speakers.

Props to the SOTA Star III w/ Fidelity Research arm -- it's given me tons of problem-free pleasure over the past 6 years; not bad for a "starter" table, and still a fine rig after all these years!
manitunc
795 posts
 
I believe that the farther up the line you get in any manufacturers product line, the closer the turntables sound to other manufacturers, which only makes sense if they are chasing absolute perfection. The lower line products have their issues as they are designed to a price point, with various tradeoffs that affect the sound. so you get a brighter, detailed sound, or warmer, more musical sound or whatever. As they improve, and address the lower products shortcomings, they tend to converge on a point that is similar in nature.
The Sota Cosmos IV that I have is more detailed than my Sota Star, cleaner sounding, better speed regulation, deeper bass and crisp highs. The midrange jumps out from a blacker background. It is the best table I have heard.
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