Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

Omsed,
I try to get some better understanding about your position or your preferences as well. You said that "idlers don't impress you anymore" (hope i did not get you wrong here) and you also stated that the Garrard 301 is one of yor likes. As I also believe the Garrard is a good table it lacks some of the qualities of the EMT 927. I did compare both designs (excellent, well serviced units) by using the same SME 3012 (first series) and same carts.
The Goldmund Reference I is also a good table but it does not reach the sound qualities of an EMT 927.
You have heard so many tables. It is fun discussing the different assessments we all have. I realized that many audiophiles praise Lencos or prefer special versions like the Shindo. Honestly while I listened to some good Lencos, also rebuild versions of Oma etc. they all have something and they play music in a very dynamic and soemhow attractive way.
Returning from the EMT I usually miss the balance and the smoothness paired with pressure and strenght of these idler designs.

This discussion for me has reached its end. It is now just personalities.

Thucan, we could talk for hours and hours and hours and hours about different tables and their sound with the same arms and cartridges - which is the way I make EVERY comparison. Then you or someone else could say that I did not use the right arm due to synergies of tables/arms (which is a far, far overblown thing). This could spawn more hours and hours and hours of conversations.

In the end, few have tested so many combinations as scientifically (in methodology) as I have. Let's remember, nearly all the tables were in my place, my system.

Additionally, I am looking for, and devising experiments for, the most direct players and arms in terms of getting what is off the record with as little editorialization as possible. Just talking about those experiments would take pages and pages. It would be fantastic fun for me to go through all this. But the time.....the endless posts describing things, just to have some guy with one year of experience in analog having owned 2 tables start debating with me. It's a losing proposition on forums.

I'll tell you my purpose for being here: to have something to do during a coffee break, and to try to point out that it is very hard to say that there is just one correct answer.

Most forums are full of guys who have heard 10 things or fewer (of the component type being discussed) and are declaring an absolute best, a winner, a black and white conclusion. I'm trying to make folks aware that even with many many times the experience, having a strong technical background to understand what is happening technically, having the best test equipment, and devoting a lifetime to it, things are still complex and declaring a single winner is not clear cut. Even declaring a winner on the best drive system is not clear cut. I'm still buying things with different drive technologies to test....looking for some potential advantage to a particular drive technology that I don't really believe in.

A teacher used to say to us "open your mind, something might drop in". I'm here trying to do that.

I know a guy who have never raced cars. Does not follow car racing. He's never excelled at a high amateur level of any type of motor sports competition. But he feels he has a gift for the "feel" of vehicles, so he feels he could be a NASCAR race winner if he got some experience. Now, I feel NASCAR oval racing boring and the skill is not apparent to me. BUT, I know that there is a very high degree of skill needed. It is just not so obvious to me when guys are going "round and round". I know my good friend is deluded.

This is the same way I feel when I see a consumer saying "This is the best (technology, or model, design) ever made" when I know that even with education, design experience at high tech levels, then a career of decades doing this, I can't make such blanket statements.

Thucan, you said "you also stated that the Garrard 301 is one of yor likes."

Yes, that's true. But when I say "like" it is totally different than my saying something is state of the art. "Like" means I find it pleasant, easy to listen to, does not hurt my ears.

As far as being "great" or "state of the art", it is way, way far away from that. It is missing much too much detail and layering to be anywhere near state of the art. When I put my best turntable in after the Garrard I end up saying "Wow, WHERE did all that depth, detail, layering, low level sonic cues come from?" I find no advantage in any area whatsover (dynamics, drive, stability of tone, actual tonality, decay, attack, convincing of the real event ability) over my best turntable. But it is nice, and I would way rather listen to it than many current turntables.

The very, very best (and that does not mean the very most expensive) turntables have moved forward, but the whole market has not IMO. There are plenty of very poor turntables out there, even costing as much as $10,000 or more, and I would rather listen to the Garrard or SP10 than any of those poor ones.

Going to try to be bowing out from the forums now guys. I see that they are addictive to me! Wow, it takes a lot of time to try to be clear, and I have my real job, research and design to do.

Try to remember, when you think you know it all start looking for your mistakes! You'll find them. When I run an experiment and results turn out different than my expectations I get more excited than when I'm right. When I'm wrong it is a huge opportunity to delve into the science and experiment to find out just why I'm wrong......and then I'll know a lot more, that = excitement and progress!