Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

Dear Peterayer: I have no doubt that what you experienced in Viena listening at near source field live music was the most enlighted, learning and full of enjoyment of any other music experiece you had on your life.

I assumed because I had that kind of full experiences too in several ocasions. This is IMHO the best music reference we can have and a must to live it.

So, you understand very clear what means: low distortions and certainly what's right or wrong and that's al about.

Btw, looking to your system and even that your system place/room is not a big one but due that your magico's 7 inch. drivers are handling a wide frequency spectrum I can tell you that you could be nearer to teh recording and nearer to what you experienced in Viena adding to your system two active subwoofers in full stereo fashion. You will lower distortions as you never imagined. An opinion only.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, Thank you for the suggestion. I did own two JL Audio F110 sub woofers which I bought to integrate with my Magico Mini 2s for exactly the reason you mention. Unfortunately, I tried very hard to have a seamless integration and it never quite sounded right.

I then had a guy with lots of experience try to integrate the two and though some things improved like bass impact and extension, overall clarity, tone and presence did not and we both ultimately preferred the system without the subs. I think the issue is my room with that fireplace between the two speakers.

Regarding distortion in these Magicos, I'm quite pleased with how they sound. I'm sure that in purpose built, dedicated room it could be better.

Raul, I should add that Alon Wolf of Magico strongly discourages the use of subwoofers. He told me that if I wanted more bass extension, I should just buy a larger Magico speaker instead. These speakers are known for their lack of distortion.

I have heard two of my friends' systems with subwoofers. They each have larger full range speakers, and in their cases, sub woofers did smooth out bass/room issues and increased overall clarity.

Dear Peterayer: It's normal that the manufacturer advise be that you go for a bigger speaker in his catalogue.

Still today IMHO when we are talking of home stereo system subwoofers perhaps no one knows more than Velodyne. JL are good but not good enough.

In the other side, for integrate a pair of subs in a system the first issue is to know exactly what we are looking for and from my point of view the main targets are not bass impact or extension. We have to have very clear which kind of installation we will do where crossover frequency on the subs and main speakers is critical and it's from here where we can start to " build " the subs integration followed by the room subs position.

Yes, it is not an easy task but if you or the person that help you have the knowledge level then there is no doubt that you can achieve success about.

++++ " seamless integration " ++++, again with the right knowledge level that is IMHO always attainabel.

I took almost a year with my system to achieve that: " seamless integration " .

First decision you have to take on subs is to choose the right subwoofer and IMHO JL was a " wrong " alternative. It's not my opinion but there are facts about, example: for the model 212 JL gives an spec of 6.5% value for its THD at 50hz, this means that at lower frequencies as 20 hz that number can goes over 10% easily.

The Velodyne THD at 20 hz is only 0.5% and there are several reasons for that and one is the Velodyne system acelerator/servo that sense/measure over 15 K times each second the woofer movements to impede not only overload but to mantain inside that 0.5% THD. No not all subs are the same, but the important issue is the knowledge level we have.

If you are trying to add subs with high distortions you can't have success.

Believe or not IMHO the integration of active subwoofers in system with passive speakers is a " new science ".

Regards and enjoy the music,

R.

I just got in touch with another wonderful idler, the Pierre Clement. Does anyone have experiences with this quite rare table. Would be fun running it again the EMT 927.