Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

Dkarmeli
I use the Micro as a reference simply because more people are familiar with these. I personally use the original Final Audio Parthenon VTT1/VSM2 with VDS17 Stabiliser & VM7 Mat which as you mention has a focus on unwanted energy dissipation from the record groove in its design goals along with a high inertia solution for speed stability. What differentiates it from the top Micro's and is clearly audible is the more sophisticated speed control which utilises sine & cosine wave generators for stability with the huge AC motor, variable torque to minimise motor noise, an inverted bearing design and the energy control paths are quite sophisticated even by todays standards, culminating in the stabiliser/mat/platter/bearing assembly and arm pod both terminated into a slab of SPZ ( superplastic zinc alloy ) that when excited grain slides at a molecular level. This results in an extremely rigid closed loop system between arm and platter but ensures energy is not transmitted from one to the other.

The Parthenon was an assault but didn't get all the way there, too many gimmicks. Its not only mass here, ...

Which version are you referring to here. The later version - see pic here http://www.damoka.net/product_pages/analog/ as used by Lamm in one of their shows did not use the SPZ base and has a smaller and less substantial bearing pillar & subplatter assembly and is not as good as the original.

Raul- Not to be a nit-picker, but it seems to me that your accuracy analogy to the earth;s rotation is counter to your arguement. Unless I am mistaken, the earth's rotation is not "accurate" if by that you w/o variation. For example earth wobble a bit on it's axis and it's rotation is gradually slowing due to predictable tidal effects and unpredictable or stochastic effects, such as massive earthquakes. As Wikipedia notes"

The Earth's rotation axis moves with respect to the fixed stars (inertial space); the components of this motion are precession and nutation. The Earth's rotation axis also moves with respect to the Earth's crust; this is called polar motion.

Precession is a rotation of the Earth's rotation axis, caused primarily by external torques from the gravity of the Sun, Moon and other bodies. The polar motion is primarily due to free core nutation and the Chandler wobble.

Over millions of years, the rotation is significantly slowed by gravitational interactions with the Moon; both rotational energy and angular momentum are being slowly transferred to the Moon: see tidal acceleration. However some large scale events, such as the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, have caused the rotation to speed up by around 3 microseconds by affecting the Earth's moment of inertia.[21] Post-glacial rebound, ongoing since the last Ice age, is also changing the distribution of the Earth's mass thus affecting the moment of inertia of the Earth and, by the conservation of angular momentum, the Earth's rotation period.

Beethoven is different from Bach. Was Heifetz better than Perelman? Which conductor led the best performance of [insert symphony of your choice here]. Was Pavarotti "better" than Caruso. Are we talking about precision or accuracy? Obviously, these are rhetorical questions. Obviously there are some basic accuracy parameters that must be met, esp for a mechanical system like a TT/tonearm/cart.

My purpose is not to argue about your specific analogy but to point out that the use of objective criteria to define what is essentially a subjective experience may, ultimately, be futile. Reproduced music is not the same as the original performance. Never was and never will be.

David said, "Dear Mosin, isn't Oswald Mills yours?"

No, any association I had with that company was dissolved years ago. Saskia is my only product.

Dover, I'm referring to the later model called Parthenon 2025 on my old website that you linked to. You have a very rare beast there, I heard them a couple of times on my trips to Japan but never owned one. My friend had the SZ-1 and the American Sound to play next to the Parthenon.

It is sonically different from MS but its not only the motor, there are very many other differences. The materials are different, inverted bearing vs air bearing. The tone arm base setup, then there's the weight ratio between between base and platter which can also alter the sound. There probably are other less obvious design differences between the two. The later Parthenon 2025 wasn't bad sounding but used various gimmicks to try to achieve the same level as the original, the just didn't get far enough with it.

david

PS it's interesting that now twice in this thread people referred to our rooms at the shows as Lamm rooms, obviously I failed the marketing test!

Dear Dkarmeli: It's obvious that we are looking the audio subjects in different way.

In the other side I'm not trying to diminish the 927 I'm only trying to understand/find out facts that can confirm your words.

Subjectivity is unique to each person and even in your appreciated " romantic " way of thinking is not the same for other persons.

Dkarmeli, there are scientific reasons why you exist in the same manner that are scientific tools that can or not confirm your words on 927.

I posted before that when you say: " that's what I like it or I like it ", then the conversation is endded because there is no single argument against that " I like it " when the other side close the door.

I said that any audio subject must be analized in two ways: objective and subjective and of course with an unbiased mind.

Yes, for me accuracy and neutrality ( low low distortions/colorations. ) are my audio system targets. I don't like or want to add more color/distortions to the one that comes in the LP grooves.

Btw, if creativity is what you means with art then we can agree to disagree because that " solid engeneering " is not only " numbers " but how a human been handle those " numbers ", is part the creativity ( how it works with the " numbers " ) of that " solid engeneering " because one thing carry the other. Art is a little more that only creativity.

Anyway, thank's for your time.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.