Poor recordings that are now great.


This could be a useful thread. It obviously speaks to the quality of the gear. Since I've gotten my Acoustat TNT 200's and 120 back from rebuild/upgrade, I'm blown away by the fidelity of recordings I've considered to be at the bottom of the barrel; all early recordings.

Beatles,
Stones,
Dylan,(some beyond help)
America,
Donovan,
Leonard Cohen,
Monkees,
Steppenwolf,
Louis Armstrong,
Simon, Garfunkel,
Procol Harem,
Johnny Rivers,
Chris Kristofferson,
Loretta Lynn,
etc.

That typical transient saturation is either gone or drastically reduced with the revelation of information lost otherwise, with a corresponding increase in imaging and sound stage. I remember a few salesmen back in the 70's suggesting poor recordings be used as the yard stick when auditioning gear but I never heard the kind of improvement I'm talking about. Interestingly, the difference in otherwise good recordings is not as apparent.

csontos
But It seems there's an objective similarity among these early recordings that reveal corresponding similarities among the gear in that the gear does not eliminate the aparrent limitations of the recording ime, until now. Your final conclusion of using good, bad and middle of the road recordings to evaluate gear lends credence to my initial assertion, does it not? In any case, top notch gear has not had much of an influence in moving past that 'barrier' until now. I'm using two bridged TNT200 amps, Meridian 501 pre, and Oppo BDP95 as source. Speakers are not nearly as relevant imo, but just to be completely forthcoming, I have a pair of JBL L5's on the burner with a pair of Velodyne DPS 12 subs.
Is it possible that the improved sound quality you are talking about is because your TNT200's were rebuilt? Maybe the recordings are not as bad as you think.
"Your final conclusion of using good, bad and middle of the road recordings to evaluate gear lends credence to my initial assertion, does it not? In any case, top notch gear has not had much of an influence in moving past that 'barrier' until now".

Well, let me put it this way: some gear designs have traditionally concentrated mainly on making good or excellent recordings sound sensationally good - even if at the expense of rendering less-than-stellar recordings to sounding like crap. And likewise, some gear seems as if it were designed in the opposite way and they do relatively well with good and almost-good recordings, but at the expense of not distinguishing so well the differences between good recordings and great ones. This is really the old "ruthlessly revealing" vs "forgiving" nature thing. My assumption is that there can be such a thing as gear that can accomplish both goals, but that technically this is evidently rather difficult to pull off in the real world (or at least rather expensive). Having your gear modified in the way it was may have done something toward straddling the best of both worlds - taking your 'revealing' TNT200's and, while keeping their revealingness intact, also extended their performance to include being able to better handle the 'less-than-excellent' recordings as well, i.e., adding more forgivingness. I sometimes think designers tend to focus on one end or the other of the 'revealingness/forgiveness' spectrum, apart from cost and technical reasons, simply because they feel that's what their customers expect from them - and that, with revealingness in particular, many makers may perceive buyers as being obsessed with the 'absolute best' in everything. The 'absolute best' sounding gear for the money and the 'absolute best' sounding recordings to play on them and that most of those buyers will, when confronted with the bulk of the recordings that don't seem to measure up on their high-end systems, will not attribute the fault to their gear (which I think it may sometimes be...even expensive gear), but mistakenly blame instead the recording as being substandard. At least that's my take on it.
That could very well be. But I'm comparing my experience to the past 30+ years with various gear. I suppose you're right and I've finally come across an amp to successfully challenge those recordings. I guess a better question might have been to ask what your opinions are on the quality of those on my list. However, my intent is to identify the gear. In this case, the TNT200 FWIW. I've used plenty of recognizably great amps but they've always seemed to be challenged by those early recordings in the same way.
I see. IME amps have always been the trickiest to get right in a system. Maybe that's made worse by that fact that there seems to be such slim pickings for them these days. It seems easier by far to get revved up about some really good preamp candidates...or DACs, TTs or speakers...but, somehow, not amps. At least for anything I've seen under $5k. Ask different people about amps and you get a different answer from every person. Not too long ago, I asked Ric Schultz of EVS as to what in the heck I could possibly get from him as a recommendation for an amp under $3k and he just couldn't come up with an answer at the time...and he got his start modifying amps. All my possible suspects that I posed to him he wound up shooting down. Others whose opinion I trust have had the same sort of problem making an amp recommendation to me. My current amps are Monarchy SM-70 Pro's (balanced mono's). They are a probably a bit too much on the forgiving side of things for me to outright recommend them to most people, but, for lack of anything on the horizon to replace them with, I'm actually doing quite well with that limitation...plus they happened to be spectacularly cheap at only $588 each. But, by far my best solution to this issue (and many others) was to have heavily invested into electronic noise reduction ala Alan Maher Designs. This has been crazy good for the performance of my system...but I had to drop a pretty penny for it all...about $9k. It did help these amps do much better with excellent recordings, but all that may really be a whole nother kettle of fish, really. I haven't heard the TNT200's, but it is good to know about them in this light. I wish I could be of more help than that. I've only hear the Oppo on your list and believe it to be good, but I'm not familiar with Meridian pre's. I do agree with you that speakers in this case don't seem to be as big an issue.