Preamp inverts phase question:

:-) lol Jmcgrogan2 wrote "One more option could be an inverted source. An inverted source with an inverted preamp and a non-inverting amp would also produce absolute phase.

To make it simple, think of absolute phase as a '+' and inverted phase as a '-' . 2 X '-' = '+' , 1 or 3 X '-' = '-' .
You can simply change the '-' to a '+' by switching + and - on your amp terminals, no big deal."

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain it instead of just saying it. Very well put in easy to understand terms.
This explains why I am correct for my system and not for others. There must be many others that have sources that are inverted and then throw in phono pre's and DACs on top of that as well.

I could not change the speaker cables on my speakers. I run Acoustat's with the Direct Drive Tube Amps so I had to get a switch put in a preamp to be able to switch in between inverted and non inverted.

This is an area where an Electrical engineer would be more versed as there are absolutes.
Sorry to say it but I just don't hold Electrical engineer to the same standard as I once did or some so called online Electrical engineers . I just seen to many of them
saying certain things are impossible when it comes to cables and such. For me it ruins some of the credibility because I hear a difference!

Maybe I was confused when the Designer explained it to me as it may have been just to my system he was talking about.

But as to my other points as to how it affects the sonics and sound stage, I can hear it.

I believe I am I still correct in believing that a designers primary function when designing with inverted + non inverted components is the objective for the components to match, so one can achieve absolute phase.

Benie, you're still missing the point that with respect to absolute phase (polarity), you are essentially at the mercy of the recording engineers and how any given disk was recorded in the first place. It would be wonderful if all disks were recorded in absolute polarity, but they're not. For instance, every Deutsche Grammophon record and tape I own was recorded in "inverted" polarity. So the only way you "can achieve absolute phase" when playing a DG disk is to switch speaker cables or have a preamp with a polarity switch. IF, as I keep saying, you can hear the effect at all.

Okay, so for someone much slower than the rest of you... If my source does not invert, my preamp inverts and my amp does not invert my sysytem should be in absolute phase right? This way, my sytem would be set up properly for recordings that have been recorded in absolute polarity (although many recordings are not.) If I then wanted to confirm that my end result is absolute polarity would an absolute polarity checker accomplish that? (My amp is french and they are terrible about responding to inquiries) so, I am not 100% sure that it does not invert phase and would like to be able to confirm my end result with such a tool if that is what the tool is intended for.

No. For the connections you describe, your system phase would be inverted.

Invert: to reverse in position or relationship.
What comes out is inverted, or reversed, in relation to what went in.

Non-invert: to keep the position or relationship the same.
What comes out is not inverted, or reversed, in relation to what went in.

If only one of your components in the chain inverts phase, the end result is an inverted phase.

If you have two inverting components in the chain, the output of the first is inverted. This inverted signal then goes into the next component, which inverts the signal, resulting in an output that is now in-phase, or very close to it, from the original signal.

Lay a coin on the table, either side up. Now flip it over, or invert it, and the other side is up. Now flip it one more time. Aren't you back to the side you started with?

One thing may be confusing you about this. The components in your system do not have a clue as to what the absolute phase is, nor do they care.

Forget about phasing in recordings because this is a whole other can of worms. I've heard it said that phase is, more often than not, inverted many times through the recording process. So stick to what you can control in your system.

Thank you: Dan ed, Benie, Almarg and everyone else who took the time to help me with my understanding of these principals.

Adam