Rolled some 12ax7's recently...

Now you tell me! After I washed off those cool little bugle boys off my Bugle Boys! Should I just toss them and buy some of those more robust Bugle Boys where the bugle boy doesn't wash off?

Thanks for the information! I will give it a try.

B-man I've heard rumors (un-verified by me, mind you) that the BB's with the permanent labels (not the Amperex orange globes) might be fakes. I would suggest doing a bit of research first. I could be wrong of course, however I find "Trust but Verify" to be an excellent approach (in many areas of life actually!)

BTW, according to my techie friend Stephen Sank, any of the minitriodes that say Herleen Holland are out of the same Amperex factory? Just different labels/brands.
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Thanks Nsgarch for watching out for me. I should have put a "just kidding" type statement after my first paragraph above. Sorry, my sense of humor can be pretty bad or twisted.

I have read articles on the Internet in my research about the counterfeits of the highly valued "NOS" tubes, and one of the first things they mention to look out for is labels that are tenacious and don't wash off.

Actually, as an aside, the counterfeits make me wonder about re-issues. Are they really built to spec of the original tubes, and with the same quality of workmanship? The burning question is, do they sound as good? Anyone have experience with them in comparison to the originals?

From the very first moment that I started cleaning my NOS tubes, I noticed how easily the labels came off. The labels were practically rubbing off in my latex-gloved fingers. And with isopropanol, they came off immediately (the labels, not my fingers). I immediately broke out my tube tester and Sharpie-brand marker, and numbered, tested and cataloged my tubes before cleaning the rest. I matched the tube number to the tube brand and measured specs. I am so happy I did that because now, years later, I can still identify tubes and match them.

Thanks for the tip about Herleen Holland, too. I will look out for them. I like the BB's so much that I am very curious to see if the other Amperex's sound as nice.

Thanks again for watching out for me so that I don't get ripped off -- there are many things I am naive about and it is great when decent people speak up!

B-man, we were all beginners once, and although people have to have their own learning experiences, it doesn't hurt to ive folks a little heads up.

As for current ('reissues') vs. NOS (honest people now call them ANOS = almost new old stock = slightly used old stock ;-) Honestly, slightly used is a better bet than brand new old stock because at least the slightly used are proven working. If I were buying expensive BRAND NEW old stock tubes, I'd make a deposit but then insist the seller
test and burn-in the tubes for a few hours before shipping them to me ;-)

As for their sound, the current issues aren't bad, and I'm sure they will slowly get better. The brands bought by the American fellow who owns New Sensor in russia are: Sovetek, Genalex Gold Lion, Electro Harmonix, Svetlana, Mullard, Tung Sol, and a few other I forgot. None of them are like the originals (internally) although some are built very substantially.

The real difference between the old and new is metalurgy. The old-timers who experimented for years and years cooking up new (secret and jealously guarded) plate coatings had no one to pass the secrets to when ss came along. So the craft died with them. They succeeded in achieving very high plate current at rated voltages that tubemakers today can only hope they'll get to one day.

As an example, a typical NOS Genalex GEC or Gold Lion had transconductance values (when new) of 10,000 umhos or more (that's the measure of a tube's gain). Today's best KT-88's, the Genalex or the Shuguang/Penta-Labs (the Penta is an exact copy of NOS tube) when they are brand new are 7000 to 7500. I have some USED NOS Genalex theat are 9000! So it's not so stupid to buy he older tubes and some of them have a sparkle to them than so far no current tubes can duplicate. Anyway that's the basic story. There's tons of history and lore available today at the click of a mouse.
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Great information Nsgarch, thank you!