End to All Power Problems

Macdad,
I'm afraid that government policy is involved, like it or not.

My electric bill is for say.....450KwH per month. Let's just say I could buy a methane genset of 1000KwH per month capacity. The rules make it mandatory that the power company 'buy' my power. However, they never cut me a check, but use my power to 'offset' my bill. So, I could have a ZERO bill and make the power company money.
Change the rules and make 'em PAY me cash, and the game changes.
Likewise tax incentives / rebates. If the unit costs 20,000$ it'll take me a LONG time to justify the cost thru traditional payback analysis. This is strictly a money calculation. But, if I can sell my power for cash or get a lot of money from the government till, than the equation changes.

If your statements about being less expensive and lower marginal cost are correct, than it is indeed a game changer. However, the other side is that you are now a 'power company' and may have additional rules / licensing and taxation to contend with. Maybe if you stay off-grid?
Point is, the Power Utilities simply won't take this laying down.

I remember a couple summers ago when Enron was SCREWING California by selling our electricity back to us for some wacky rate that FERC did absolutely NOTHING. (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission) ......

This is, however, after all is said and done, a technology to keep track of.

Magfan, sorry butyou actually have all of that wrong from top to bottom.

This technology will generate power and only as much as you use. You will have no excess to sell back to your electric provider. You will only be billed for the Nat Gas that you use if this works as advertised. You are "off the grid" unless you keep a connection for back up. The power company has no say in this at all. They cannot stop you from generating your own power.

What happened with Enron in the Summer 2000 had nothing to do with FERC. The state of California deregulated their retail and wholesale power without knowledge of what they were doing. The utilities were no longer in charge of the grid, and were actually complicit in the legislation that passed allowing it. They should have paid more attention.

What Enron, Dynegy, El Paso, Aquila (and other charged in this F--- Up) did was they took advantage of some terrible rules concerning scheduling through the congested transmission point into SoCal. They would all schedule into the points, they would fill up and dis-allow a lot of the generation to flow. The companies would then take the generation off line and market would SCREAM up to find generation to fill the load.

Firstly, the companies that did this were not doing anything illegal, they were just short term thinking idiots who shot the goose who laid the golden egg. Part of the problem was that California regulations were so rediculous, that at the time there was not anywhere near enough transmission capacity (thanks tree huggers and Grey D), or generation so that caused the congestion. Who on earth would de-regulate then?? It was a cluster from Day 1.

The idiots at the mechant energy companies involved shot he goose that laid the golden egg because they were so short sighted they didn't think of the consequences beyond the quarterly returns from the prices they pushed the market to.

The other huge regions that were in the process of deregulating, Souther Co (GA, AL, parts of FL, MS), Florida Power and Light, Entergy (LA, AR and parts of TX), AEP, etc... all used this crisis to stop deregulation dead in it's tracks. This was a major cause for the Bankruptcies of Mirant, NRG, Calpine and the dissolution of a bunch of other merchant power developers, and none of it was good for the consumer. Oh yeah, and the "Smartest Guys in the Room" took about 15,000 jobs with them as they melted down.

Sorry, I digressed, but long story short, no the utilities won't be happy, but they cannot stop you from generating at your house, and you will have no excess power to sell back to the grid.

Also the state commisions, not FERC dictate your particular states' rules regarding retail (consumer) power. The good news for you in Cali, is that you will get this technology first, and many businesses there (Google, eBay, Cisco) have been the Beta test facilities, and Cali has great natural gas infrastucture, and access to lots of supply.

So sign up now.

FERC was supposed to have a say in interstate sales of power....thus the F in FERC. As I understand the Enron scam, they were moving power around and once it went 'out of state' they could get (demand) some pretty high prices.
Yes, California screwed themselves royal, and I'm still paying the price. The NIMBY delegation is even fighting some improvements....like a new power line to be strung from N to S.

I was using the solar sell-back model as an example. Here in California, we are a 'net metering' state. Except for my NEW electronic meter......Which won't go 'backwards'. You can never make a dime, but can actually Zero your bill. some places my insist on a connection fee. A precedent exists for a person who wanted NO power or utilities but was billed anyway...for the connection. I believe he lost in court, but he may have prevailed. I think that was in NYC.

Doesn't change the fact that government policies effectively influence events thru taxation, rebates, tax breaks and other....some often subtle incentives.

Watch home ownership rates if they take away the home mortgage interest rate tax deduction. I may make a difference. We'll see...perhaps.

Since the methane energy production is a 'demand' system, yes indeed, no excess to sell back, unless you tell it to overproduce and you are still on the grid. To remove yourself from the grid here in a small, Southern California town would probably be some kind of regulatory nightmare. No telling where that would lead, but I'll guarantee it'd be a hassle.

Great info Macdad. This could truely be a break through if the IPP's don't stop it. They have considerable bucks and hook ups to.

Exactly. It's not as if the virtues of this new technology will prevail simply because of 'greeness' or 'inexpensive'.

Lots of forces will be arrayed against this technology. As Mac states, lots of 'big' (pick your favorite) may favor it...since they will still be in the sales loop, but the IPPs? They are going to have a meltdown....and here in California, we have aggressive state supported research added to the mix.

I'm going to ask the city what it takes to go 'off grid' electrically. I'll bet that even if they GAVE me the methane system, it'd still cost a bundle. Who knows what loops you may have to jump thru? Do you have to have some kind of environmental report? Will you need to be permitted as a power producer? It may be easier out of the city or in county. The Indian Reservations will also get a vote, if they want it.

I like the technology....I did some light reading. If I could lease a small house-size unit...of say 400kwh capacity per month, then I'd love to see how it worked.

But, it ain't gonna be easy.