End to All Power Problems

Macdadtexas - solar is expensive to install but returns investment in 5-10 years while it lasts 25 years. It works even on cloudy days producing about 70% of max output. If only I had power meter that subtracts energy returned to grid I would install solar panels on my house.

Storage is a secondary issue since the peak of the energy usage is the biggest problem. Power stations that pump water from lower to higher basins to release water for the short time of the peak demand called "pumped-storage" are wasting a lot (20%) of energy - just to smooth out the peak thus to lower size (cost) of the main power station. This could be replaced by large solar station that produces energy during peak instead of wasting.

Gas is good and much cleaner than fossil fuels we use now. Some of them like brown coal are even forbidden in many countries. Any solution is better than doing nothing. Even simple measures like solar panels heating water (tubes and parabolic mirrors), that Magfan mentioned, are good and don't require any modification to infrastructure. It used to be popular and there is even one house in my neighborhood that has such panels on the roof.

Magfan - LDK produces high purity polysilicon, monocrystalline and multicrystalline ingots, wafers, cells and modules. There are many such companies but capacity of LDK (50 million pounds of silicon per year) shows what is going to happen soon.

Man, that is a HUGE capacity.

I tried making the numbers work for solar. Can't do it. Based on my monthly usage of <450kwh, the payback is so far over the horizon as to be a non-starter. All the fixed costs add up quickly and the fact that even at about 100 watts per square yard, I wouldn't need THAT many panels, it simply won't pay back while I'm still alive.

California is a 'Net Metering' state and they are REQUIRED to purchase your power, but only to the extent it offsets your bill. So, you'll never make a nickel, but could theoretically have ZERO electric bill.
My NEW electronic meter won't run backwards like the old meter. I'd like to hear what they have to say about getting my old meter back if I intended to 'Go Solar'.......
I'll give that a try and report back.

Magfan - to get some feel for the size and the cost I looked at Yingli Green 235P-29b poly-silicon solar panel. It delivers 235W and costs $550. Size wise it is 40"x65". 10 panels would be plenty for my energy usage returning power to grid most of the time except when air conditioner or heater would operate. Assuming 5hr of partial sunshine a day would make 1kWh per panel per day. 15 panels = 15kWh a day would make 450kWh per month - your energy needs. It would cost $8250 - one time expense with possible gov. rebates. There would be installation cost, inverters etc. so I'm not really sure what would be the total. Let assume total would be $10k. Assuming about $0.1 per 1kWh it would return investment in 18.5 years - too long. Statistics showed 7.5 years return but it could be in the best scenario with gov. rebates and quantity discounts. On the other hand it is 25 years of clean energy.

As near as I can 'figger' the best practice today is having a small inverter at EACH panel. Then you worry about AC from then after without the losses associated with DC.
Sync of inverter frequency may be an issue?

Your reference panel is about 2600 sq inches or over 18 sq feet....this is 2 square yards and quite in line with my 'rule of thumb' of 100 watts per square yard.

Polysilicon is MUCH less expensive than single crystal. In my application, when I need it most is summer when the AC kicks in most. I would love to see the 'derate' of this panel and see what it'll do in 90f weather. I also, in the summer, can count on somewhat more than 5 hours per day. I'd have to consult an 'expert' with all the local data for better than 'guess' numbers.
Now, assume I use 15kwh per day. I'd need to get most of that back in say.....8 hours in summer so I'd need nearly 2000 watts of panel, counting the derate. Maybe those 10 panels would get me there....maybe not. Winter would be another story and I may be able to count on only 5 or 6 hours, plus the inevitable 'weather loss'. So, to deliver 450 kwh in a month 'worst case', I'd need a few more panels. Maybe more than a few......I'll have to sit down and run some more serious numbers.
Point is, if I plan for worst case....that being the least amount of sun, I'll need more panels than run a surplus during the summer. That may be best, but not necessarily for me.
One PLUS for me is that one big flat side of my roof faces south and west. The MINUS is that I have a large slope in back. The sun sets on the highest part of the slope in winter and the lowest part in summer.....and since the sun 'moves' its point of set, is always in between those 2 points.

If I could go 'all in' for any less than 15,000$ I'd be surprised. Even if I got back say.......5,000$ in kickbacks, tax breaks and incentives, I'd still have to figure out how long it'd take me to use that much electricity. 100$ per month for 100 months....that's a tick over 8 years.....Better than I thought, but I'd still like to see some real numbers.
Maybe I could afford that class 'a' Pass amp, after all!

I'm also going to call SDGE next Monday, and spin a story. I'll tell 'em I've got one of there electronic meters and intend to go solar. The 'new' meter won't go backwards so It's either cut me a fixed benefit deal or give me my old meter back. Just to shake the tree, you understand.

Magfan, you need to check with someone at one of the non-profit "green" coalition about the meter issue. I'm not an advocate for gov't subsidized anything, but, it's seems at odds the the gov't is subsidizing these technologies, then the state commisions allowing the utilities to screw you on the rules.

There must be a group working on a class action suit against the utility. It should only have to go the state commision,and that can actually get resolution, in many states, very quickly.

Good luck.