Psvane Teflon capacitors real or fakes?


These are great looking capacitors and supposed to be competing against the Audience, Rel, V-Cap, and Sonicap Teflon capacitors. A couple of my tweaky friends who have no end to new capacitors gave them a try and had one quit after a month or so, and with the wire cut off, no return possible. So they cut it open, yes they are curious, and according to them, the guts looked like mylar, measured like mylar??? Could these not be Teflon caps after all??? I open this for discussion with some of the tweaky electonic minds out there to get to the bottom of this. If they are not genuine teflon, I would not want fellow audiophiles to get ripped by another false claim. But to be fair, real verifiable data should be submitted here, no guesswork. I trust my friends, but I did not do the test, so I open it to other philes. Hey, I like a great deal too, but if it is not as advertised, I get pissed too. Take a look fellow philes, and lets solve the mystery....Jallen
jallen
Here is the official answer:

China has been on holidays so I finally got hold of the technical lead person for these caps. Some clarification from Psvane Audio:

1. The Psvane caps were NOT designed to copy V-Cap. Instead, it's a high end cap designed for final sound with materials selected for sound. Below are the materials used in making the Psvane caps:

Copper foil - as seen from pictures provided by Jallen of V-Cap, the pure copper used by V-cap is of darker color as seen in high purity copper. Psvane caps use high conductivity Beryllium Copper instead.

Teflon film - this is where the clarification is much needed as raised by Jallen in the first post. Psvane caps use teflon shield for the leads, and the highest grade Polyester (BoPET) film from Dupont as insulation film. There may be future high end caps from Psvane Audio made with pure teflon films but these are still in lab design and testing stage. No sure release date yet because the final high end sound is what Psvane Audio is after, not the teflon insulation film. Design might be changed when final product is released and they will not release further details.

Given the above factory clarification, Grant Fidelity has corrected our website product listing by dropping 'teflon' from the description to avoid misleading customers.

The Psvane caps are still called 'Teflon caps' in the Chinese market and due to interpretation in Chinese language, it doesn't appear that local consumers in China are raising questions like we do in the west. However, Grant Fidelity is committed to provide Chinese hi-fi products with transparency and top service, we will refer the Psvane caps as 'Psvane copper foil caps' in all our publications.

As stated by Psvane Audio: the Psvane caps were not designed to copy V-cap; instead they were designed to go after the same high end market that V-Cap is occupying. Grant Fidelity believes that referring Psvane caps as 'Teflon caps' (as printed on the caps) has caused confusion among consumers hence some came to the conclusion that Psvane caps are fakes. There is merit to such a statement given the above circumstance.

However, Grant Fidelity has always sourced high end Chinese audio products for the sound quality - same sourcing criteria apply to our decision of taking on the Psvane caps in the first place. We carry Psvane caps for its sound, for its reliability and for what it can do for hi-fi sound in its correct application in electronics components. With correction of the production description, Grant Fidelity will continue carry the Psvane caps under the name of 'Psvane Copper Foil Caps' at the same price. All products from Grant Fidelity have always been priced according to its purchase cost and resell directly to consumers without retail mark-up.

In our opinion, the error in product description doesn't undergrade or undermine the sound quality of these caps and it doesn't change the test results that were published on our product listing page since day one by a high end audio manufacturer.

Psvane Caps are not fake V-Caps. It is simply another creation from the Chinese Hi-Fi industry by using different materials to deliver great sound as a final product. We apologize if our previous product description has caused confusion.

In terms of reliability issue reported by some buyers - Grant Fidelity cannot comment directly on the specific case because the caps were not purchased from Grant Fidelity. However, as myself has been in the product sourcing industry for nearly 20 years dealing with Chinese manufacturers, I can say that there exist the possibility that counterfeit caps could become available from China with the increasing popularity of Psvane caps in the Asian market. Using same packaging but different internal materials to make product bearing the same brand is a very common way of counterfeiting in China. Psvane Audio also commented that they typically select the best quality for their international clients, similar as on their vacuum tubes, and they were very surprised by the appear-to-be-high frequency of failed caps incidence reported on this forum. Grant Fidelity has never ever imported a single product through a middleman / broker in Hong Kong or China (as far as we know, some western businesses do purchase Chinese hi-fi products through English speaking Chinese brokers, but Grant Fidelity didn't, doesn't and never will.) We do not leave any chance for a product to be mixed with counterfeits. Grant Fidelity source directly from the manufacturer and only use a closely related party "Audio For Less' in Hong Kong which we trust 100% for shipping and logistics. Grant Fidelity do not resell caps or vacuum tubes to any other re-sellers (including the one Jallen purchased his caps from) so that our reputation will be guarded closely. We only provide caps and tubes to amplifier manufacturers to include in their final products for sale, but not sold separately.

It's not recent news that high end western brand audio accessories are being sold in China by unethical dealers who blend real ones with counterfeit together for sale. I have personally seen several cable brands and caps suffered from such loss. It's not a surprise such a counterfeit practice has spread to Chinese high end brands as well.

Grant Fidelity believes in creating value for end users by reducing distribution layers - adding another re-seller in the chain isn't the business model we are participating. From all our Psvane caps sales that we sold directly to end users, we have never had a consumer reported a failed cap. In the unlikely event if a cap does fail within warranty, we will certainly provide replacement without exception. In fact, we have started our amplifier factory order with these Psvane caps pre-installed on certain models. Amp factory has reported that all 160 caps delivered in the first batch all have past examination with flying color.

To find out how these Psvane caps sound (that's what really matters, not the plastic sheet used between the conductors, isn't?), Grant Fidelity will now provide 30 day return privilege on Psvane cap order from now until May 1st, 2012. As always, free shipping is provided worldwide. If you are not happy with the sound, just write us for return instructions then mail it back to us for refund(note the caps must not be damaged on the leads or cosmetically). That is how confident we are with the sound.

We hope the above has above has clarified the debate. I won't comment on the pictures provided by Jallen for the Psvane caps since those caps were not from us. Our cap internal pictures are posted on Grant Fidelity website product page (0.47uF/600V) for everyone to view in detail.

Thanks for reading and happy listening.

Rachel @ Grant Fidelity
On the 1/20/2012 post, the comment from Grant Fidelity stated "I am no plastic expert, but the film does look like teflon". Why not at this time just tell us that the dielectric is BoPet/Polyester Film. It seems that at this time there was some understanding that the Psvane cap had some teflon property to the internal film.... Perhaps the caps are best identified as external copper teflon leads, internal copper polyester film. Consumer awareness in a time when many frauds permeate this industry is paramount to economic recovery in this industry. I appreciate all of your efforts in making the consumers aware of all beneficial information.
I had hoped to hear from one or more of the other manufacturers as to what adequate product information should be expected. This information, without disclosure of intellectual property, can greatly assist purchasing decisions for consumers. Jallen
To answer Jallen: if you read my answer line by line: it states clearly that "Psvane caps use teflon shield for the leads, and the highest grade Polyester (BoPET) film from Dupont as insulation film."

Not sure what you mean by 'Why not at this time just tell us that the dielectric is BoPet/Polyester Film".

Product information disclosure is up to the manufacturer and when different languages are involved, communication has extra barrier. I do not believe Psvane Audio intentionally mislead anyone and we as re-seller will provide as much information as we can and respond to inquiries as fast as we can. I haven't seen other re-seller to put up their answers yet - I look forward to reading their stories.

to answer Magfan: If your browser turn language to French, just clear your browser cookies from Grant Fidelity website. We have no idea how this happens with Google - our own computer sometimes turn to French too and there are no cookies on our site for identifying language. We are in Alberta Canada and none of us here speaks French. Sorry about it but all we can say it's a tech glitch that I have no knowledge to fix except delete site cookies when language changes.

Happy listening.
Rachel @ Grant Fidelity