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Music Server Setup: Airport Express or Extreme?

I’m expanding my audio system to include other rooms in my apartment.

I’d appreciate some advice as to what the Apple Airport Base Station, Extreme or Express (or both together), are the best way to integrate this. I’ve been researching and considering this for a couple years, but it is time to harden my plans and ask specific questions. One area of confusion is with various Apple Airport Base Station models: I’ve read many conflicting reports regarding reliability/functionality benefits between the Express and the Extreme, so I’m a little confused.
I am on a tight budget now. I also want the Airport to meet my general computer networking functions as well as my audio needs.

Here’s the lay of the land:

I live in a multiple story pre-WWII residential apartment building in NYC (I mention this in case building construction effects wireless communications: my walls are plaster/lathe vs. sheetrock; ceilings are plaster and wire lathe; the wiring in the building is from an era gone by, so no contemporary in-wall network cabling, in fact most room only have 2 electrical outlets). With my laptop, I am able to connect with other wireless networks in the building, depending on location. My Internet connection is via DSL. There is a cable installed in my apartment but I do not subscribe.

I want to play music potentially into two other Satellite Rooms in addition to my main listening room: one of those Satellite Rooms shares a common wall with my listening room (perhaps I can just run speaker wire through this wall to power a 2nd pair of efficient speakers?). Another room is about 30 feet away from my listening room.

My main listening room:
Includes my analogue music rig and my desktop computer system.

Analogue Hardware:
I have a vintage Yamaha Integrated Amp, Meridian 508.20 CD player, Polk Lsi9 speakers, Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable, Kimber Kables.
Integrated Amp has 2 pairs of speaker outputs (one pair are unused).

Computer Hardware:
My main computer is an Apple G5 desktop (Dual 2.3 GHz PowerPC w/4.5 GB memory). NO airport card is installed in the computer.

My laptop is an Apple G4 iBook (1.33 GHz PowerPC G4, 768 MB memory, w/60GB internal hard drive). The laptop has an Airport Extreme internal card installed.

I have a dedicated external 500GB HD to store my iTunes music library (which is backed up to a second dedicated external 500GB HD). My digital music files are mostly Apple Lossless (with duplicates in AAC and MP3 files for downloading to my iPod).

My music server as it has been configured for the past 2 years or is an afterthought. It plays only in my main listening room and consists of the External HD (used to hold my music library) that is connected to my Apple G5 desktop computer with just an RCA splitter cable going from the G5’s audio-out to an input on my integrated amp. The Apple G5 runs iTunes. No aftermarket DAC, no remote controls. I control iTunes from the G5 desktop directly with a wired keyboard/mouse.

I want to do 3 things and in separate stages:
Stage 1) I want to pipe music into one other room, Satellite Room #1 (my bedroom). Satellite Room #1 shares a common wall with the main listening room and if need be I could run speaker wires through the wall to power a second pair of efficient speakers. ‘Background’ quality audio will be sufficient for now: I will upgrade the audio quality later as finances allow. I will only ever need to listen to music in ONE room at any given time.
Stage 2) add ability to pipe music into Satellite Room #2 (the living room). ‘Background’ quality audio will be sufficient for now.
Stage 3) Upgrade the DAC.

Remote Control Considerations:
I want to be able to control the music server remotely from any of the Satellite Rooms. For example, I would like the iBook laptop with its internal Airport Extreme card to wirelessly control iTunes (running on my G5) from other Satellite Room locations. What sort of Airport Base Station do I need to purchase: Extreme or Express? Also, does the G5 need its own INTERNAL Airport Card installed in ADDITION to the Airport Base Station?

Eventually, I would like to introduce a pair of speakers into Satellite Room #2 and have the same sort of remote control over the music server with the portable iBook as I have in Satellite Room #1. I expect for the Satellite Room #2, I will need to purchase a second amp in addition to speakers…but what other hardware would I need to get music into the third room? Or how best to realize this on a budget?

I may purchase an iPhone in the near future. I understand that iPhones (or even generic remote control devices) can remotely control the iTunes music server. If so, this would free up the iBook laptop in the event I need a second computer to run the system in one of the Satellite Rooms.

DAC Upgrade:
I’ve read on here much over the past couple years about DACs. Presently, I am using the internal Apple DAC built into the G5 desktop computer. I have read extensively about its limitations and after I get Satellite Room #1 operative, I will experiment with a budget DAC upgrade: maybe a Gary Nixon unit or a Benchmark USB. If an updated DAC sounds pleasing, I’ll sell the CDP and convert my system sources to only a digital music server and vinyl.

***I also want to be able to have the iBook and the G5 wirelessly networked together for general (non-audio) computing and file sharing as well, bear that in mind when recommending an Apple Airport model.

Thanks a bunch for any input or suggestions.

-Lovegasoline
lovegasoline
jax2
3,031 posts
 
the AE hookup is not different than what you get with the transporter. all the AE does is to accept a signal wired or wireless from a central computer. that is exactly what the transporter does. so if you think that the AE device is inferior to the transporter in that function, you need to explain why because they both accept "bits" from the network.

No, I do not necessarily think the AE is inferior in its wireless transmission of bits. My comments regarding the AE are regarding its function in sending a digital stream directly to a DAC. I've tried it with four - a Benchmark, Wavelength a Muse 2+ and a CAL Alpha (the Muse and Wavelength required some kind of adapter as I recall - but it did not address jitter). It is in that regard I found it's performance lackluster. Soundstage was very limited and dynamics were inferior to the same DAC fed by a CD transport via coaxial cable. My results were consistently poor. I have NOT used the AE with a jitter reduction device in between, as you suggested. You are correct, I missed that detail in your post. Sounds like a good idea. I cannot explain why the performance was inferior, I can just try to convey what I heard. To clarify, I use a Modwright (modified) Transporter. I do not have experience with as stock Transporter. I can assure you that, though it may have the same capabilities as an AE, it does not sound like one...at least to my ears. You made some inference that I was making claims to the effect of it being be-all-end-all front end. I made no such claims. I simply said it's the best I've had and experienced. I'm sure there are many others that do a fine job and even excel. I'm just contributing my own personal experiences and, as with anyone else's, it's worth exactly what you paid for it. Take it with a grain of salt as you would any advice. Try this stuff out as you see fit in your own system, your own room, your own music and with your own ears and find out what works for you.

I didn't make any comment at all about the DAC in the G5. I have no opinion since I've never tried it. My intuition is to get the signal OUT of the noisy electromagnetic environment of the computer box ASAP doing no conversions at all inside that environment.

The Esoteric D-05 that uses an AKM AK4397 DAC is a standalone DAC. The Gryphon I mentioned is a player. Alex Perchev also uses AKM DAC's in his APL players.

My comments about the WAP devices and the G5 are strictly aimed at the G5 towers that the poster said he had. They are constructed entirely of aluminum. There are issues around transmission because of this construction. I've found it best to use an external wireless device, and the Airport is excellent, and easy to setup. It will also transmit throughout a house and outside. Internal cards in my g5 will not transmit 20 feet. This is a known issue. I suggest before you try another type of device you do some research on that issue. As I said, there used to be a few companies making external antennas that mount on the back of the G5. I don't know how effective they are. The one Apple produced is useless in my experience and I believe they stopped selling it. Perhaps some other internal card actually does a better job, but I'd suggest you do some research. If you find something that works well please post it here as I'd also like to know. I'd prefer to have an internal device rather than another box on my desk. In that regard I'd agree with that advice.

rbstehno
1,407 posts
 
something lost in the translation. i never mentioned about a dac in the g5. imo, there is no dac that is worth anything that resides in a computer. jax2, i think you are confused on what a wap device is. it is a device outside of the computer. you go over and over about the crappy g5 wireless card. great, don't use it. i am saying don't use it, use a wap device to create a wireless network in your house. very simple to do. ignore the apple card. ignore the wireless functionality of the g5 tower. create a little network using a 5 port hub and a wap and you can connect all the wireless devices to this network. you can also use a wireless router. there are many different choices. just get over the g5 wireless option.

you missed my point about what the AE, squeezebox, and transporter do. they all receive wired or wireless signals from a transmitting source of some sort. they all have network capabilities that resend data packets if any packet gets corrupted. the ae and squeezebox devices do the same functionality, the transporter adds a dac to the picture. you can't say that the dac in your $2000 transporter sounds the same as a $10k esoteric dac just because you might use the same chip (the esoteric dacs i looked at don't use the akm chipset). There is a big difference.
jax2
3,031 posts
 
Yep, I guess I misunderstood you. We agree on a wireless device outside of the tower.

In over 25 years in this hobby, and now more than ever, I'd opine that a price-point does NOT necessarily determine how good a component will sound. I don't use a stock Transporter. I didn't say a TP sounds like an Esoteric DAC, just that the two shared the same choice in DACs (in the case of the model I pointed out - yes, they make more than one model). Of course the implementation and the rest of the component will have impact on how it actually sounds, as will the rest of the system. I've never compared my TP or any TP to an Esoteric DAC. Have you, or are you just speculating based on their price? Have you ever even heard a TP? Or a Modwright TP? You've kept comparing the AE to a TP and I'm pointing out that one is quite different from the other in the internals, not the least of which is the DAC. As I said, my listening with the AE was consistently inferior as fed through toslink to an external DAC (no jitter device in between). The Modwright TP is one of the best digital front ends I've ever heard. It warrants no comparison to anything I've ever heard from an AE via an external DAC. My experience there is limited to the DACs I listed, and clearly that does not include the way you've suggested implementing a de-jitter device. I would not spend time doing any critical listening to the AE setups I've tried out. YMMV, and your de-jitter solution sounds like a step in the right direction. Bravo. Again, I'm just conveying my experiences here, and I suggest anyone make their own judgments with their own ears.
rbstehno
1,407 posts
 
i do know dan, been over to his house before to listen to his modified dvp9000es players when i was thinking of modifying mine a few years ago. i have not heard his modified TP, but i have listened to his preamps and cd/sacd modified players.
lgoler's avatar
lgoler
55 posts
 
Seems that the original poster would be advised to read this:

http://www.stereophile.com/accessoryreviews/505apple/index.html

Addresses the jitter issue, or lack thereof when using the digital output of the AE to a device such as a DAC that will take a digital inputed signal.
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