Computer audio, I am not convinced yet ......

>>The guys that have been running USB servers for a while now are going back to CD players. To me, that is abandoning USB.

Cerrot, who are "the guys"? And are you certain that ALL of "the guys" abandoning USB servers for CD players, or is your allegorical statement in reference to something you heard regarding a friend of your cousin's dog groomer?

Topmostaudio, it is a safe bet that PC audio is here to stay, at least until something newer or better comes along. Industry and media surveys show that CD player use is diminishing across the board, but less so with the over 55 crowd. Most folks under 30 probably don't even have a CD player anymore, except for a laptop and even that hardware is diminishing rapidly.

PC audio (I include mac in that description as well) can sound very good, as good or better than almost any standalone CD player or transport. I used a Meridian 508.24 for years, and still have it. My mac audio setup sounds better, is more convenient (once setup) and is much more versatile.

What's the downside to PC audio? First, in short, it's a semi-compatible collection of third party parts and software. It's not as elegant or simple as a CD player, hence all the attempts to make a good, easy-to-use media player. I remember an A'gon member writing, years ago "I won't use computer audio until it is a simple as my [whatever] CD player. All I need is play, pause, FF and FB"

Secondly, PC audio can be expensive, especially if you listen to many of the so-called "experts" who insist that you need a USB/SPDIF bridge, or an external USB reclocker, or an uber-expensive Elbonian DAC w/ seventeen balanced inputs or other such audio frippery. You don't. Start small and simple, get used to managing your music files, and make upgrades as the sound dictates and your budget allows.

IMO, USB works well between PC/mac and DAC, but I have heard many great systems that used SPDIF or TOSLINK. If you have a PC or mac, order a Meridian Explorer DAC from audioadvisor.com. If you have a mac, download a copy of Bitperfect and play your files through iTunes. This is not an expensive suggestion, and many guys here may urge you to spend more. But try this first. If you don't like it, return the Meridian DAC to Audioadvisor and all you are out is shipping and $10 for Bitperfect. But I will bet that you will find it easy to setup, use and that it sounds pretty damned good.

Steve N: you are correct. the number of "samples" i've heard are limited to say the least. i'll also agree that a few PSA users are completely happy using USB. i'm not disputing USB can sound great. my problem is with all the flaming hoops one must jump through to achieve good USB sound. you've done a great job of explaining how important proper implementation is when using USB.....your many posts on the subject explain it thoroughly. my problem lies with the "proper implementation" itself.....and the cost (money and complexity)/reward proposition. i obviously don't get it.

that being said....i'll go back to my original statement... that USB is not needed to achieve great sound. it could be for some??.....it might be for other....but it's not always the case

The alternative to usb is a good sound card. If you study the USB porotcal, you will find that it transmits data in packets - not streams. That is the inherent problem. No one on earth can dispute that the usb bus teransmits data in packets. A soundcard, via spdif (or PC via fire wire even) transmits data is a stream. USB IS JITTER! (why would you build a house on sand when you can build it on something firm?)

As for examples of listeners abandaning usb, I follow many forums online and if you pick thrugh to the engineers (take a peak at linkedin - places where guys arent trying to sell stuff) you will see what I mean.

It serves no advantage to me to preach against usb other than to save someone out there time and money and not give up on pc audio after a short time cause it sounds poor). Its just gotten silly. Just try the spdif out of a computer and w/o fumbling arond with drivers, clocks, asychronwastemytinestuff, it will just sound awesome.

Donjr just posted a thread that mentions Sony is introducing a bunch of new hi rez products. Admittedly, I do not understand the lingo or the formats. Perhaps one of our digital techy members can translate what this means. Is this something new, or is the digital landscape still pretty rocky? Thanks

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-push-hi-rez-downloads

Bifwynne - the Sony product discussed is basically a CD/SACD player that uses computer files rather than disks. It works with standard CD computer files (16bit/44.1 KHz) as well as higher rez files like 24 bit/96 KH, 24/192KHz like DVD audio used. It also reads SACD files (DSD - 1bit/2.8MHz) and double resolution DSD (1 bit/5.6KHz) files. DSD format is becoming increasingly popular with the hi rez crowd, although there is little currently available in that format. The unit will convert LCPM (like CD, 24/96) to DSD. Some people think the converted DSD sounds better. HI rez LCPM files have become pretty common, but DSD files have not been, partially because it has always been very hard to rip SACDs and because DSD DACs are just becoming available.

In PC audio terms, it performs the tasks of a PC, a PC player (like iTunes, foobar, J River) and a LCPM/DSD DAC.

It might be a good solution for a novice hi rez person, if there is such a thing. For current computer audiophiles, my guess is they will stay with the flexibility of different software players, different DACs, different OSs, etc. You can do the same functions as the new Sony with, as an example, a Windows PC, J River Media Center software and a Mytek DAC. Some people will find the integrated unit useful. The Mytek DAC is $1,800 if I remember correctly, so the $2K price is in line.

Somewhat long winded, but hope that helps.